CCrane CC Skywave SSB 2 coming in December for US$199


Phil Pasteur
 
Edited

I guess I would ask, how bad is it? Is it bad enough to interfere with copy in normal use?  I know we would prefer that the radio is dead silent at min volume, but how would it effect you when using the radio as you normally will, with the signals that you want to listen to? 
Certainly, if it bothers you enough, return it. There is not reason to buy a new, relatively expensive, radio and have it cause you aggravation. OTH, if the rest of the radio is to your liking, maybe live with it.
I don't know if or when CCrane might fix the problem, how long it will take, and how much more you will need to pay to get another one once that is done. Lots to think about, but it is up to you and how much this level of noise really impacts your use case.


Gord Seifert
 

   You paid something like $200 for that thing. You should not be bothered by a hiss that they could not have missed when it was still at the early testing phase. There is no excuse for shipping the product before fixing a known, and obvious, problem. Please use the warranty. Send it back or demand a replacement. If customers let this slide CCrane will continue to send out defective, or poorly designed products. 
  Sorry if i sound a bit sharp on this but it is because my only previous (first and last) experience with a CCrane product was an internet radio, that was a very poor design to begin with, which then became completely unusable because the internet portal CCrane had designed the radio to use ceased operation. The radio's user interface was borderline useless, requiring a ridiculous number of button presses to get anything done. And that was made all the more frustrating because it came with a tiny remote (about 2 by 3 inches) with very small membrane buttons that became painful to use in minutes. It should never have been sold. I wish now that I had taken my own advise and sent it back, but I am in Canada and it would have been way more trouble than just throwing it out.  

Regards,
Gord Seifert


Michael.2E0IHW
 

I recently bought a UK  internet radio that uses  Shoutcast. Outstanding. and good value.  But the BBC intersperses programming with the ominous message that
in 2023  BBC radio will be phased out. My previous PICO suffered a similar fate : no longer supported. This nevere happened in the glory days of AM radio...

Michael UK

On 18/12/2022 19:31, Gord Seifert wrote:
   You paid something like $200 for that thing. You should not be bothered by a hiss that they could not have missed when it was still at the early testing phase. There is no excuse for shipping the product before fixing a known, and obvious, problem. Please use the warranty. Send it back or demand a replacement. If customers let this slide CCrane will continue to send out defective, or poorly designed products.
  Sorry if i sound a bit sharp on this but it is because my only previous (first and last) experience with a CCrane product was an internet radio, that was a very poor design to begin with, which then became completely unusable because the internet portal CCrane had designed the radio to use ceased operation. The radio's user interface was borderline useless, requiring a ridiculous number of button presses to get anything done. And that was made all the more frustrating because it came with a tiny remote (about 2 by 3 inches) with very small membrane buttons that became painful to use in minutes. It should never have been sold. I wish now that I had taken my own advise and sent it back, but I am in Canada and it would have been way more trouble than just throwing it out.

Regards,
Gord Seifert


Dstock
 
Edited

Phil - thanks for the thoughtful reply. The hiss does not directly interfere with copy, but it is noticeably ever present and requires me to turn up the volume above the noise floor more than desired. This makes for a somewhat tiring listening experience especially with headphones.

I have several portables including the Sony 2010, Sony 7600, Tecsun 880 so I suppose I am accustomed to little to no hiss at 0 volume.  But even my lowly tiny Bell and Howell 9-band portable has less hiss than the CCrane SSB 2. Just a bit surprised. I am glad you replied with your thoughts on how to evaluate the decision.


Dstock
 
Edited

Gord - thank you for weighing in on the CCrane SSB 2. I am certainly bothered by a fairly obvious characteristic of this radio and wonder how it would have been released to the public in its present state. I really want to like this radio but it is hard to overlook the hiss.


radiojayallen
 

This residual hiss is there but not a problem in my estimation. On my sample I can hear the hiss from the speaker only if I am very close to the radio...about a foot or so away it fades to nothing and has never been an issue while listening. In earbuds I tried a pair of Panaonics and a pair of Sony's and there wa no hiss...on a pair of more efficient buds there was a slight hiss but if your buds make noise like this (with any radio) you can eliminate it with an inexpensive inline volume control.

My two cents worth.
jay


Michael Schuster
 
Edited

Sadly, my SSB 2 has the noticeable hiss at 0 volume on both speaker and headphone as mentioned by Todderbert @ 14:20 in his comparison between the SSB and SSB 2,
Hmm, sounds familiar. See analysis of XHDATA D-808 from

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/xhdata_d_808_non_documented_or_overlooked_behaviors.html

  • Audio stage Background noise floor

    • Some owners and testers reports about a permanent background noise, audible when the volume knob is at minimum, but it becomes hidden when increasing the volume to 5 or 10% of the rotation knob.

    • This audio stage background noise is present no matter what RF band and settings are selected. It is present to the speaker or earphones having the analog volume potentiometer at the minimum position.

    • This audio stage noise is more audible thru the speaker than on earphones, what seems to make no sense. But when looking to the circuit we see the reason. The earphones are driven thru a series RC network with 100uF and 100 Ohm. Depending on the earphones impedance, the noise will be stronger for higher impedance units. However the common earphones would present 32 Ohm, a low value when compared with the series 100 Ohm resistor.

    • Initially I thought that this behavior was related to a defective component, but now that I have my unit (new version 2021), I am not so sure. As the volume is a pure analog potentiometer, the noise must be generated inside the CS4863 (LM4863 equivalent) audio power amplifier IC.

    • After analysing the LM4863 datasheet (the CS4863 datasheet is in Chinese but looks identical in content) and looking into the D-808 circuit design, I believe I found the root cause for the background noise.

      • ​As the audio output from the SiLabs Si4735-D60 DSP is around 80mVrms, a audio pre-amplifier should have been included in the D-808 design to rise the audio signal to around 2Vrms in order to be able to run the CS4863 audio power amp at unity gain where it shows the lowest and inaudible background noise.

      • The design choice used on the D-808 was to save costs on the audio pre-amp and simply configured the CS4863's OpAmp1A and OpAmp2A  with a very high bridged mode differential gain of 77 (!)

        • ​Calculation: AVD = 2 × (Rf / Ri)  where D-808 use ​Rf = 150K and Ri = 3.9K

        • A typical AVD would be between 1 and 5, maybe a mximum of 10, to contain the IC noise floor under inaudible levels. But doing so would result in very low volume levels because of the missing audio pre-amplifier stage.


Les Rayburn
 

IMO, a tempest in a teacup. 

My “Hot-Rodded” XHDATA 808 and CCRane Skywave SSB have captured lots of MW DX that my Drake R8B never heard. 
I plan to order the CCRane CC Skywave SSB 2 later today. 



73,

Les Rayburn, N1LF
121 Mayfair Park
Maylene, AL 35114
EM63nf

NRC & IRCA Courtesy Program Committee Chairman
Member WTFDA, MWC

Perseus SDR,  AirSpy + Discovery, SDRPlay RSP Duo, Sony XDR-F1HD [XDR Guy Modified], Korner 9.2 Antenna, FM-6 Antenna, Kitz Technologies KT-501 Pre-amps, Quantum Phaser, Wellbrook ALA1530 Loop, Wellbrook Flag, Clifton Labs Active Whip. 

“Nothing but blues and Elvis, and somebody else’s favorite song…” 

On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:24 AM, Michael Schuster <schuster.ma@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Sadly, my SSB 2 has the noticeable hiss at 0 volume on both speaker and headphone as mentioned by Todderbert @ 14:20 in his comparison between the SSB and SSB 2,
Hmm, sounds familiar. See analysis of XHDATA D-808 from

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/xhdata_d_808_non_documented_or_overlooked_behaviors.html

  • Audio stage Background noise floor

    • Some owners and testers reports about a permanent background noise, audible when the volume knob is at minimum, but it becomes hidden when increasing the volume to 5 or 10% of the rotation knob.

    • This audio stage background noise is present no matter what RF band and settings are selected. It is present to the speaker or earphones having the analog volume potentiometer at the minimum position.

    • This audio stage noise is more audible thru the speaker than on earphones, what seems to make no sense. But when looking to the circuit we see the reason. The earphones are driven thru a series RC network with 100uF and 100 Ohm. Depending on the earphones impedance, the noise will be stronger for higher impedance units. However the common earphones would present 32 Ohm, a low value when compared with the series 100 Ohm resistor.

    • Initially I thought that this behavior was related to a defective component, but now that I have my unit (new version 2021), I am not so sure. As the volume is a pure analog potentiometer, the noise must be generated inside the CS4863 (LM4863 equivalent) audio power amplifier IC.

    • After analysing the LM4863 datasheet (the CS4863 datasheet is in Chinese but looks identical in content) and looking into the D-808 circuit design, I believe I found the root cause for the background noise.

      • ​As the audio output from the SiLabs Si4735-D60 DSP is around 80mVrms, a audio pre-amplifier should have been included in the D-808 design to rise the audio signal to around 2Vrms in order to be able to run the CS4863 audio power amp at unity gain where it shows the lowest and inaudible background noise.

      • The design choice used on the D-808 was to save costs on the audio pre-amp and simply configured the CS4863's OpAmp1A and OpAmp2A  with a very high bridged mode differential gain of 77 (!)

        • ​Calculation: AVD = 2 × (Rf / Ri)  where D-808 use ​Rf = 150K and Ri = 3.9K

        • A typical AVD would be between 1 and 5, maybe a mximum of 10, to contain the IC noise floor under inaudible levels. But doing so would result in very low volume levels because of the missing audio pre-amplifier stage.



Alan Sykes
 

This is my first post even though I have enjoyed reading all the posts for a long time. I am a MW dxer and participate in Loyd's Dx Central every week which is a lot of fun!
The Crane SSB 2 has been for sale on their site for $149.00 for at least a week. I ordered one which will be here Wednesday.
73,
Alan KR4AE


Gord Seifert
 

I forgot to ask if the SSB2 you received still has the popping when tuning or changing bands that 'todderbert' mentioned in his video. I strongly suspect it has been eliminated or, since you use earphones, you would very likely more bothered by that than the hiss.


radiojayallen
 

Mine doesn't...it is fine in this respect.

Jay


K7DWI Art
 

I am not sure if this has been posted, but reading this thread I discovered my D-808 also has a hiss at "0" Volume.
You have to stick your ear up to the speaker to hear it and it is barely audible with my Apple earbuds.
It is not annoying to me.
I hope you all have a great Holiday/Solstice season with your radios.

73 Art K7DWI/5 in frigid N.Texas 


Michael Schuster
 
Edited

I am not sure if this has been posted, but reading this thread I discovered my D-808 also has a hiss at "0" Volume.
You have to stick your ear up to the speaker to hear it and it is barely audible with my Apple earbuds.
Scroll up!

https://ultralightdx.groups.io/g/main/message/34499

The root cause appears to be the omission of an audio preamp chip, probably for cost savings. This requires operating the audio power amp at a very high gain setting, where its S/N ratio is worse.

The hiss is dependent on the impedance of the connected device; hence the difference between speaker and headphones, or between different headphones.

The cousin of this model, the Deshibo RD1780 (Digitech AR1780) seems to have similar issues.

Given that this is a new complaint with the Skywave SSB2, and one of the advertised "improvements" is higher audio output, I'd be willing to bet this is the same culprit. If the cause is the same as with the XHDATA, I wouldn't expect a firmware fix.

In context, there are some Sangean sets (the ATS-505 and DT-800 come to mind) which also have a relatively high noise floor.