Loggings - 03/08/2021


Paul Blundell
 

I need to try some ratios and values to see what works best. It needs to be a fair match between power, distance and signal strength to get a single figure that shows how "good" of a catch it was.


On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 20:17 Frank Standford, <dxer2k1@...> wrote:
So your thinking of finding a way to include signal level in it? I ould be happy to help you work out how to do this.
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 5:54 PM
From: "Paul Blundell" <tanger32au@...>
To: main@ultralightdx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021
That makes sense. For my own purposes I might take this idea and expand on it and see what numbers I can come up with.
 
Paul
 
On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 17:17 Jorge Garzón via groups.io, <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 
 
The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 
 
We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 
 
Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 
 
73!

 

 


Paul Blundell
 

I can see some merit in that. A bit like did they win the race or set a new personal best / world record?



On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 20:16 Frank Standford, <dxer2k1@...> wrote:
Not really a fair example. To me it is more like did they win by 1m or 50m...
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 5:17 PM
From: "Jorge Garzón via groups.io" <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: "main@UltralightDX.groups.io" <main@UltralightDX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021
In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 
 
The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 
 
We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 
 
Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 
 
73!


 

So your thinking of finding a way to include signal level in it? I ould be happy to help you work out how to do this.

 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 5:54 PM
From: "Paul Blundell" <tanger32au@...>
To: main@ultralightdx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021
That makes sense. For my own purposes I might take this idea and expand on it and see what numbers I can come up with.
 
Paul
 
On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 17:17 Jorge Garzón via groups.io, <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 
 
The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 
 
We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 
 
Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 
 
73!

 

 


 

Not really a fair example. To me it is more like did they win by 1m or 50m...

 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 5:17 PM
From: "Jorge Garzón via groups.io" <iberiaDX@...>
To: "main@UltralightDX.groups.io" <main@UltralightDX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021
In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 
 
The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 
 
We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 
 
Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 
 
73!


Paul Blundell
 

That makes sense. For my own purposes I might take this idea and expand on it and see what numbers I can come up with.

Paul

On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 17:17 Jorge Garzón via groups.io, <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 

The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 

We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 

Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 

73!


Jorge Garzón
 

In my opinion, a multiplying factor is very difficult to apply because that is a qualitative and not cuantitative feature, so it's difficult to measure it accurately. There is a way to convert this into numbers and this is the SINPO or SIO codes widely used in SW listening. 

The quality of a received signal on MW depends not just on power and distance, but also on fading, type of rx antenna and most important, QRM and location, including local attenuation of buildings, shape of valleys and several ones. 

We are basically trying to measure if our receivers are able to catch or not a signal. Now that the Olympics are going on, would be like... "we are interested to know if a 400m runner finishes the race but not his/her level of fatigue". 

Thank you very much to share your opinions and comments. 

73!


Paul Blundell
 

Good point.

Could we look at having a way to add / account for the signal strength? Maybe a multiplier factor of 1 - 5 for how "good" the signal is?

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 4:39 PM Jorge Garzón via groups.io <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Frank,
I am finishing a post about the UL DX Index with clearer and extended info. It will be available in 24 h on my blog. The Index just shows the difficult a signal is to be heard in our ULR and Small Portables assuming that transmitting power is the main reason to catch a signal, then the distance, at least on LW and MW (0,1 to 2000 kHz). 
Most of the times we are thinking that distance is the most important, but technically hearing a 1w signal at a distance of 100 km is a better catch that a 5 kW station at 5.000 km. 
Physically is a better listening although can be less exciting for some DXers. But we are just numbering how difficult is but not the personal excitement given by a good catch. 

Variation of signal strength does not change the index. That's why we offer two categories: barefoot receivers and receivers inductively coupled with an external loop or wire aerial. 

Every comment on this matter will give us opportunities to find the best way to use and score it. 
73
--
Jorge Garzón (EB7EFA · EA1036 SWL) 
QTH: IN83ag / 43º15' N · 03º56' W
Urb. San Roque 95, casa 5 (Villasevil)
39698 Santiurde de Toranzo (ESPAÑA - SPAIN)
..................................................................................
Blog: IberiaDX  · Twitter: @IberiaDX



--
Paul


Paul Blundell
 

That's correct, just the internal aerial.
I do also wonder if adding something about the signal level might help. Is logging a signal poorly from 5000km away better than logging a signal which is much stronger from 3000km away?

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 2:42 PM Frank Standford <dxer2k1@...> wrote:
I assume these were with no external aerial? I wonder if we could look at a scoring system for this index which also includes a part which covers signal levels? That way logging a signal at a better level would increase the index?
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 11:06 AM
From: "Paul Blundell" <tanger32au@...>
To: main@UltralightDX.groups.io
Subject: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021

The below were logged last night between 8:00pm and 8:30pm using my Retekess V-115 at home.

-------------------------
**MWDxerDB - Report**
Report Date: 08/04/2021
Report Time: 10:53:16
-------------------------

Freq / Name: 0873 - 2GB
Details: Sydney - Commercial - 6000w
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.1518 

Freq / Name: 1539 - HPON
Details: Adelaide - HPON - 5000w 
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.2104 



--
Paul


Jorge Garzón
 

Hi Frank,
I am finishing a post about the UL DX Index with clearer and extended info. It will be available in 24 h on my blog. The Index just shows the difficult a signal is to be heard in our ULR and Small Portables assuming that transmitting power is the main reason to catch a signal, then the distance, at least on LW and MW (0,1 to 2000 kHz). 
Most of the times we are thinking that distance is the most important, but technically hearing a 1w signal at a distance of 100 km is a better catch that a 5 kW station at 5.000 km. 
Physically is a better listening although can be less exciting for some DXers. But we are just numbering how difficult is but not the personal excitement given by a good catch. 

Variation of signal strength does not change the index. That's why we offer two categories: barefoot receivers and receivers inductively coupled with an external loop or wire aerial. 

Every comment on this matter will give us opportunities to find the best way to use and score it. 
73
--
Jorge Garzón (EB7EFA · EA1036 SWL) 
QTH: IN83ag / 43º15' N · 03º56' W
Urb. San Roque 95, casa 5 (Villasevil)
39698 Santiurde de Toranzo (ESPAÑA - SPAIN)
..................................................................................
Blog: IberiaDX  · Twitter: @IberiaDX


 

I assume these were with no external aerial? I wonder if we could look at a scoring system for this index which also includes a part which covers signal levels? That way logging a signal at a better level would increase the index?

 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 at 11:06 AM
From: "Paul Blundell" <tanger32au@...>
To: main@UltralightDX.groups.io
Subject: [UltralightDX] Loggings - 03/08/2021

The below were logged last night between 8:00pm and 8:30pm using my Retekess V-115 at home.

-------------------------
**MWDxerDB - Report**
Report Date: 08/04/2021
Report Time: 10:53:16
-------------------------

Freq / Name: 0873 - 2GB
Details: Sydney - Commercial - 6000w
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.1518 

Freq / Name: 1539 - HPON
Details: Adelaide - HPON - 5000w 
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.2104 


Paul Blundell
 

The below were logged last night between 8:00pm and 8:30pm using my Retekess V-115 at home.

-------------------------
**MWDxerDB - Report**
Report Date: 08/04/2021
Report Time: 10:53:16
-------------------------

Freq / Name: 0873 - 2GB
Details: Sydney - Commercial - 6000w
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.1518 

Freq / Name: 1539 - HPON
Details: Adelaide - HPON - 5000w 
Notes: 03/08/2021 - ULDXIndex = 0.2104