XHDATA-808 & the AR-1780


Troy Riedel
 

Are the XHDATA-808 & the AR-1780 radios accepted as meeting the group's "Ultra-light" definition?  Just curious because both, based on manufacturer specs, exceed the Cubic In. criteria of 20" or less.

XHDATA-808:
5.71”
3.43”
1.06”
Cu In: 20.76”
 
AR-1780:
5.9”
3.7”
1.2”
Cu In: 26.2”

Thanks in adv.


Paul Blundell
 

I believe that the XHDATA-808 is "close enough" to the size guidelines. 

The AR1780 is a bit larger so maybe not official per say but end of the day, you can use whatever you want. 

On Sat, 1 May 2021, 22:04 Troy Riedel, <troy.riedel@...> wrote:
Are the XHDATA-808 & the AR-1780 radios accepted as meeting the group's "Ultra-light" definition?  Just curious because both, based on manufacturer specs, exceed the Cubic In. criteria of 20" or less.

XHDATA-808:
5.71”
3.43”
1.06”
Cu In: 20.76”
 
AR-1780:
5.9”
3.7”
1.2”
Cu In: 26.2”

Thanks in adv.


DX Pedro
 

I think that in a shootout being made by the the senseis from the forum and scene of the ULDx, the 808 IS NOT on the category.
73s

On Sat, 1 May 2021 at 13:04 Troy Riedel <troy.riedel@...> wrote:
Are the XHDATA-808 & the AR-1780 radios accepted as meeting the group's "Ultra-light" definition?  Just curious because both, based on manufacturer specs, exceed the Cubic In. criteria of 20" or less.

XHDATA-808:
5.71”
3.43”
1.06”
Cu In: 20.76”
 
AR-1780:
5.9”
3.7”
1.2”
Cu In: 26.2”

Thanks in adv.

--
// pedro andrade


Jorge Garzón
 

Hi Troy, 
Here in Europe we do not use to listen with pocket radios, but we use small portables more often. Having said that we, in the group "IberiaDX" we use two different categories: Receptor de bolsillo (Pocket radios-ULR) and "Small Portables"). You will find a receiver's sizes table and more info here:



Troy Riedel
 

Jorge,

Awesome - I love the link, I love the IberiaDX criteria.  It's great to include (and to categorize) radios like the DE1103 (I recently sold my KA1103 but I have its brother the Eton E5 - a fine AM performer).  

I inquired many years ago if the G6 qualified as an Ultralight & I was told an emphatic "no [b/c of the SSB]".  But it seems the D-808 is accepted & it has SSB thus my confusion.  Just b/c a radio has SSB doesn't mean one is using/engaging the button.  Thanks all for the clarification - and again to Jorge for the link.  

I definitely agree with Paul:
> ... but end of the day, you can use whatever you want.

Yes.  AMDx is a fun 
pastime, no matter the radio one is using!

Cheers all,


Paul Blundell
 

I think the "SSB" rule was relaxed for this very reason.


On Sun, 2 May 2021, 04:50 Troy Riedel, <troy.riedel@...> wrote:
Jorge,

Awesome - I love the link, I love the IberiaDX criteria.  It's great to include (and to categorize) radios like the DE1103 (I recently sold my KA1103 but I have its brother the Eton E5 - a fine AM performer).  

I inquired many years ago if the G6 qualified as an Ultralight & I was told an emphatic "no [b/c of the SSB]".  But it seems the D-808 is accepted & it has SSB thus my confusion.  Just b/c a radio has SSB doesn't mean one is using/engaging the button.  Thanks all for the clarification - and again to Jorge for the link.  

I definitely agree with Paul:
> ... but end of the day, you can use whatever you want.

Yes.  AMDx is a fun 
pastime, no matter the radio one is using!

Cheers all,


Gord Seifert
 


   Jorge, those receiver classifications make a lot more sense to me than the overly restrictive ones used here. Things like the AR-1780 are not included because they are a few cubic sentimeters too large, but five or ten pounds of ferrite rods, and multi hundred strand wire, that far exceed the size and weight of the radio are OK.
   I actually have an AR-1780 as well as a Tecsun 310et and an Eton Satellit Grundig Edition (also likely too large to qualify as an ultralight). The 1780 is the best of the three in reception in a number of ways. And because it DOES have SSB, and a great fine tuning feature, I can listen to things the Tecsun has no chance at and the Satellit is nowhere near stable enough to receive.
   I do have one of the FSL antennas. I don't mean to put them down at all. It is wonderful! But I just don't understand sticking to a strict classification of ultralights when something slightly bigger just works better.

   Regards,
   Gord


Paul Blundell
 

Gord.

Nobody is saying that you can't use any radio you want in anyway you want. I have owned an AR1780 and also found it to be a very good radio.

For the group awards and challenges we have the guidelines, if we don't have a cut off at some point, we would have "scope creep" and have people using Icon R9500 as "ultralight radios".

Personally, any and all portable radios to me are okay to discuss on here.

On Sun, 2 May 2021, 17:51 Gord Seifert, <gks61711@...> wrote:

   Jorge, those receiver classifications make a lot more sense to me than the overly restrictive ones used here. Things like the AR-1780 are not included because they are a few cubic sentimeters too large, but five or ten pounds of ferrite rods, and multi hundred strand wire, that far exceed the size and weight of the radio are OK.
   I actually have an AR-1780 as well as a Tecsun 310et and an Eton Satellit Grundig Edition (also likely too large to qualify as an ultralight). The 1780 is the best of the three in reception in a number of ways. And because it DOES have SSB, and a great fine tuning feature, I can listen to things the Tecsun has no chance at and the Satellit is nowhere near stable enough to receive.
   I do have one of the FSL antennas. I don't mean to put them down at all. It is wonderful! But I just don't understand sticking to a strict classification of ultralights when something slightly bigger just works better.

   Regards,
   Gord


Jorge Garzón
 

Hi Gord, 
Well, I am not proposing changes in the ULR scene. I am just a keen dxer that I do this to enjoy the radio (Paul Blundell statement is right) ;-) 

But the reality of the DXing panorama in the Old World is slightly different. On MW we are changing the scene rapidly: we are leaving the band, less and less stations, and an indecent increase of noise generated by human activities with overall digitalization of our territory with the associated QRM. The most rewarding listening spots are now rural, wide open areas, and the wild. So all we that had comms receivers (I have an ICOM R71A and a YAESU FT2000, as I am also a ham op) looked back to small and light receivers to keep enjoying listening. At this level, the only 'serious' receivers on the market were portables: Sony, Sangean, Eton, Tecsun,... and the better ones were much more bigger than ULR's and/or pockets. 

On the other side (at least for me) is the human scale. That worries me, bur what damm is this? Perhaps there is a 'Diogenes' inside of each DXer with the compulsion to add a one more receiver in the shack, or more SDR recordings to check in the future and so on. SDR have changed our DXing scene, but actually has also helped to kill the DXing spirit to discover something new and unknown by spinning the dial keeping the frequency while listening to it carefully. SDR needs a computer, and the flow of signals is so huge that the only way to store those is to schedule recordings and fill external HD with tonnes of GBytes. But storing audio does not mean a balanced and correct management. 

I have been checking my FM dedicated hard disk with e-Skip recordings and I still have 2019 band lifts to check. Same with Medium/Long Wave stations, some of them with NDB signals from Alaska and Pacific Coast of Russia still 'unlogged'. That's crazy! and I wonder... What for? I am not an obsessive DX and as a sensible chaser just catch what he needs to eat, I want to remain a sensible DX and just catch what I can hear and process in a logical way, in a 'human scale' actually. 

So, by using small portables and ULR I keep alive the real spirit of DXing. With them (and also my LOWE HF150 and non-sdr ones) the challenge is also alive. I am not going to curse SDR as it's an awesome and useful technology, but is much less funny and to achieve rare stations, easier. 

I trumbled months ago with this original and lively group after have readen the antenna articles by Graham Maynard and after knowing the DXing tests made by Gary with his FSL samples. I coordinate in Spain the "IberiaDX" group with the only goal to put in touch DXers from the countries in the Iberian Peninsula, but of course opens to other European DXers also. From the group board, the blog and twitter I soon tried to spread the advantages of ULR DXing but, as I told before, "the reality of the DXing panorama in the Old World is slightly different." 

That's why we propose the two categories that you read in the article. Could be also 'ULR' and 'almost ULR', or even simpler, widening the 'ULR' reality to reach 30 cubic inches. For me, the DEGEN DE1103 is the boundary in size. High quality and balanced in both MW and FM, good sensitivity, a decent selectivity, portable, not heavy and comfortable to use, with thousands of units sold in Europe and other countries. That gives us just one thing: Enjoying the hobby. And when people enjoys a hobby and find that can achieve difficult challenges, they stay and want to keep going forward! 

I am sorry for this long message but it's Sunday and I have plenty of time today. In a couple of hours I will be checking the Iberian MW with our "IBOM-ULR" long-term project with a dozen of DXers spreaded on the four corners of the Iberian Peninsula. A proof that people enjoys and keep on going along the ULR scene! 

¡73 y Buen DX! 
--
Jorge Garzón (EB7EFA · EA1036 SWL) 
QTH: IN83ag / 43º15' N · 03º56' W
Urb. San Roque 95, casa 5 (Villasevil)
39698 Santiurde de Toranzo (ESPAÑA - SPAIN)
..................................................................................
Blog: IberiaDX  · Twitter: @IberiaDX


Paul Blundell
 

Well said. Maybe we need to have multiple classes for the various sizes?


On Sun, 2 May 2021, 20:25 Jorge Garzón via groups.io, <iberiaDX=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gord, 
Well, I am not proposing changes in the ULR scene. I am just a keen dxer that I do this to enjoy the radio (Paul Blundell statement is right) ;-) 

But the reality of the DXing panorama in the Old World is slightly different. On MW we are changing the scene rapidly: we are leaving the band, less and less stations, and an indecent increase of noise generated by human activities with overall digitalization of our territory with the associated QRM. The most rewarding listening spots are now rural, wide open areas, and the wild. So all we that had comms receivers (I have an ICOM R71A and a YAESU FT2000, as I am also a ham op) looked back to small and light receivers to keep enjoying listening. At this level, the only 'serious' receivers on the market were portables: Sony, Sangean, Eton, Tecsun,... and the better ones were much more bigger than ULR's and/or pockets. 

On the other side (at least for me) is the human scale. That worries me, bur what damm is this? Perhaps there is a 'Diogenes' inside of each DXer with the compulsion to add a one more receiver in the shack, or more SDR recordings to check in the future and so on. SDR have changed our DXing scene, but actually has also helped to kill the DXing spirit to discover something new and unknown by spinning the dial keeping the frequency while listening to it carefully. SDR needs a computer, and the flow of signals is so huge that the only way to store those is to schedule recordings and fill external HD with tonnes of GBytes. But storing audio does not mean a balanced and correct management. 

I have been checking my FM dedicated hard disk with e-Skip recordings and I still have 2019 band lifts to check. Same with Medium/Long Wave stations, some of them with NDB signals from Alaska and Pacific Coast of Russia still 'unlogged'. That's crazy! and I wonder... What for? I am not an obsessive DX and as a sensible chaser just catch what he needs to eat, I want to remain a sensible DX and just catch what I can hear and process in a logical way, in a 'human scale' actually. 

So, by using small portables and ULR I keep alive the real spirit of DXing. With them (and also my LOWE HF150 and non-sdr ones) the challenge is also alive. I am not going to curse SDR as it's an awesome and useful technology, but is much less funny and to achieve rare stations, easier. 

I trumbled months ago with this original and lively group after have readen the antenna articles by Graham Maynard and after knowing the DXing tests made by Gary with his FSL samples. I coordinate in Spain the "IberiaDX" group with the only goal to put in touch DXers from the countries in the Iberian Peninsula, but of course opens to other European DXers also. From the group board, the blog and twitter I soon tried to spread the advantages of ULR DXing but, as I told before, "the reality of the DXing panorama in the Old World is slightly different." 

That's why we propose the two categories that you read in the article. Could be also 'ULR' and 'almost ULR', or even simpler, widening the 'ULR' reality to reach 30 cubic inches. For me, the DEGEN DE1103 is the boundary in size. High quality and balanced in both MW and FM, good sensitivity, a decent selectivity, portable, not heavy and comfortable to use, with thousands of units sold in Europe and other countries. That gives us just one thing: Enjoying the hobby. And when people enjoys a hobby and find that can achieve difficult challenges, they stay and want to keep going forward! 

I am sorry for this long message but it's Sunday and I have plenty of time today. In a couple of hours I will be checking the Iberian MW with our "IBOM-ULR" long-term project with a dozen of DXers spreaded on the four corners of the Iberian Peninsula. A proof that people enjoys and keep on going along the ULR scene! 

¡73 y Buen DX! 
--
Jorge Garzón (EB7EFA · EA1036 SWL) 
QTH: IN83ag / 43º15' N · 03º56' W
Urb. San Roque 95, casa 5 (Villasevil)
39698 Santiurde de Toranzo (ESPAÑA - SPAIN)
..................................................................................
Blog: IberiaDX  · Twitter: @IberiaDX


Troy Riedel
 

Gord,

> Things like the AR-1780 are not included because they are a few cubic sentimeters too large, but five or ten pounds of ferrite rods, and multi hundred strand wire,
> that far exceed the size and weight of the radio are OK. 

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head [for me]!

I understand the need to have a "line" (criteria), but there is no "line" for what is attached in the form of enhancement - antenna - & that always seemed contradictory to me (a radio like the D-808 that is .76 cubic inches above the "line" - which confirms a contradiction as some EXclude while others INclude).

I subscribe to this list because I enjoy reading everyone's logs and reports of what they capture - I find it interesting.  Some inspire me to strive for the same - the posts of people using the same or similar radio.  The fact I'm not using a wheeled cart or milk crates to transport or move my [ultralight radio] antenna does not detract from the interest I have of reading that someone captured a medium wave signal across the ocean.  That's a "wow".  But the latter is not me - and that's perfectly fine - to each, his or her own.

But I'd never post my logs and I would never go for an award or a record because of my confusion (contradictions).  But that's fine, too.  I get inspired from this list.  And I have a spreadsheet with my own personal "hall of fame" within my bald head ;-)  My set-up is probably the equivalent of a Smart Car - I just can't compare what I do to someone using a racecar or a tractor trailer especially through a blurry lens when some include while others exclude the same "car".

I really appreciate the open discussion.  Cheers to all ... and keep DX'ing, use whatever you want, and get others involved (I'm trying to inspire my 30-something son to get into the hobby)!



Paul Blundell
 

I guess the flip side of this is that we could limit the aerial size / type but allow any type of radio.
To me, the challenge is in pushing the radio to its limits, sometimes this is just the radio, other times I use my 3" FSL. 

The line is that we have two classes, barefoot which is JUST the radio and unlimited which allows external aerials. 

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 10:44 PM Troy Riedel <troy.riedel@...> wrote:
Gord,

> Things like the AR-1780 are not included because they are a few cubic sentimeters too large, but five or ten pounds of ferrite rods, and multi hundred strand wire,
> that far exceed the size and weight of the radio are OK. 

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head [for me]!

I understand the need to have a "line" (criteria), but there is no "line" for what is attached in the form of enhancement - antenna - & that always seemed contradictory to me (a radio like the D-808 that is .76 cubic inches above the "line" - which confirms a contradiction as some EXclude while others INclude).

I subscribe to this list because I enjoy reading everyone's logs and reports of what they capture - I find it interesting.  Some inspire me to strive for the same - the posts of people using the same or similar radio.  The fact I'm not using a wheeled cart or milk crates to transport or move my [ultralight radio] antenna does not detract from the interest I have of reading that someone captured a medium wave signal across the ocean.  That's a "wow".  But the latter is not me - and that's perfectly fine - to each, his or her own.

But I'd never post my logs and I would never go for an award or a record because of my confusion (contradictions).  But that's fine, too.  I get inspired from this list.  And I have a spreadsheet with my own personal "hall of fame" within my bald head ;-)  My set-up is probably the equivalent of a Smart Car - I just can't compare what I do to someone using a racecar or a tractor trailer especially through a blurry lens when some include while others exclude the same "car".

I really appreciate the open discussion.  Cheers to all ... and keep DX'ing, use whatever you want, and get others involved (I'm trying to inspire my 30-something son to get into the hobby)!




--
Paul


keith beesley
 

As I understand it, the strict definitions of "what is an ultralight" are no longer as relevant as they once were, because we are no longer competing for awards. As Gary, John Bryant, and others originally conceived the group, there were periodic awards for the longest reception, most countries heard, most states/provinces, etc., but now no one has the time to record the receptions, print certificates, etc. 

73s to all, 

Keith Beesley
Seattle WA USA

On Sunday, May 2, 2021, 04:39:07 PM PDT, Paul Blundell <tanger32au@...> wrote:


I guess the flip side of this is that we could limit the aerial size / type but allow any type of radio.
To me, the challenge is in pushing the radio to its limits, sometimes this is just the radio, other times I use my 3" FSL. 

The line is that we have two classes, barefoot which is JUST the radio and unlimited which allows external aerials. 

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 10:44 PM Troy Riedel <troy.riedel@...> wrote:
Gord,

> Things like the AR-1780 are not included because they are a few cubic sentimeters too large, but five or ten pounds of ferrite rods, and multi hundred strand wire,
> that far exceed the size and weight of the radio are OK. 

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head [for me]!

I understand the need to have a "line" (criteria), but there is no "line" for what is attached in the form of enhancement - antenna - & that always seemed contradictory to me (a radio like the D-808 that is .76 cubic inches above the "line" - which confirms a contradiction as some EXclude while others INclude).

I subscribe to this list because I enjoy reading everyone's logs and reports of what they capture - I find it interesting.  Some inspire me to strive for the same - the posts of people using the same or similar radio.  The fact I'm not using a wheeled cart or milk crates to transport or move my [ultralight radio] antenna does not detract from the interest I have of reading that someone captured a medium wave signal across the ocean.  That's a "wow".  But the latter is not me - and that's perfectly fine - to each, his or her own.

But I'd never post my logs and I would never go for an award or a record because of my confusion (contradictions).  But that's fine, too.  I get inspired from this list.  And I have a spreadsheet with my own personal "hall of fame" within my bald head ;-)  My set-up is probably the equivalent of a Smart Car - I just can't compare what I do to someone using a racecar or a tractor trailer especially through a blurry lens when some include while others exclude the same "car".

I really appreciate the open discussion.  Cheers to all ... and keep DX'ing, use whatever you want, and get others involved (I'm trying to inspire my 30-something son to get into the hobby)!




--
Paul