Date
1 - 15 of 15
New DSP ULR radio
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Hello Kevin, Tom and Others,
Thanks for the notice of the new Tecsun PL-606
model, Tom. One has been ordered by EMS shipping for the upcoming Ultralight
Shootout review (in addition to the PL-310, PL-380, PL-360, PL-210, KK-D6110 and
R1210 models). My guess is that for this model, Tecscun repackaged the
compact PL-360 circuitry in a horizontal-form cabinet, and added selectable DSP
bandwidths as a bonus. Whether the model is competitive in AM sensitivity with
the PL-310 (or PL-380) depends on how large a loopstick Tecsun decided to
include in the compact cabinet. Considering the past performance of Tecsun stock
loopsticks, there isn't much reason to be
optimistic.
The time crunch is slowly resolving itself here, with all radio alignments
(for ULR group members) now completed. After building a couple of long-delayed
7.5" LW plug-in loopsticks for two PL-360 owners, there should be
enough free time here to wrap up the equally long-delayed Shootout review.
The mediocre TP-DXing results this Fall Season may also bring an early start to
the winter ULR tinkering season :-)
73 and Good DX,
Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA)
In a message dated 10/27/2010 3:40:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dhsatyadhana@... writes:
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Tom Welch
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Michael Evans - Mike MBR <michaelrae65@...>
hi Tom. What is Tecsun playing at this time, new slip on or over whatever telescopic antenna, it's going to take more than that to open my hand of £s or $s, hope someone in the group has one on test, if one can aid on a extra antenna what is that telling us, down in pulling power, think about it.
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Mike MBR UK. --- In ultralightdx@..., "Tom Welch" <tw78216@...> wrote:
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Kevin Schanilec
Hmm... it looks like a PL-310/380 without the numeric keypad? I see the Anon-co is selling the PL-310 for $5 less than this new model, which is interesting... It's small (just under 13 cubic inches), which is about 2/3 the volume of the PL-310/380, which is nice. It says it has multiple AM bandwidths, presumably all 6, which would be a boon, plus it has an antenna jack for FM/SW which could hopefully be converted to an AM jack per Laurie's neat mod.
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Alas, no sensitivity or other numeric specs. I see that it's 5/8" shorter than the PL-310, so that may mean that the ferrite is smaller as well. With the whip antenna extension, I wonder how short the stock antenna is??? Also, no mention of soft-mute level or whether it can tune in 1 khz increments on MW, which would be crucial for tough DXing. If anyone gets one, do let us know so that we can evaluate whether or not it is an ULR (and of course let us know how it performs)! Kevin S Bainbridge Island, WA --- In ultralightdx@..., "Michael Evans - Mike MBR" <michaelrae65@...> wrote:
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pianoplayer88key
--- In ultralightdx@..., "dhsatyadhana" <dhsatyadhana@...> wrote:
I wonder what the width is. I've been trying to find a good AM radio that will fit in my pants pocket comfortably, and the PL-380 is a bit too large for that. Alas, no sensitivity or other numeric specs. I see that it's 5/8" shorter than the PL-310, so that may mean that the ferrite is smaller as well. With the whip antenna extension, I wonder how short the stock antenna is??? Also, no mention of soft-mute level or whether it can tune in 1 khz increments on MW, which would be crucial for tough DXing.Hopefully it has less than my PL-380. I hear obvious pumping (although not quite as much as with the G8 in most cases) on stations right at the SM threshold, and it gets quite annoying very quickly. If anyone gets one, do let us know so that we can evaluate whether or not it is an ULR (and of course let us know how it performs)!I would especially like to know how it performs near a transmitter site. I know of places where people live within about 100-200 meters of some 50kW sites, for example, and so far (I was checking Google Maps, FCC, etc) I've even found a few where some people share a property line with the transmitter site. If it could pull in listenable and good quality (full 10kHz analog would be nice if possible) audio (strong enough SNR to overcome the soft mute on full-soft-mute radios, or strong enough SNR so that if it was FM it would engage the stereo decoder) on stations 10kHz off those mega pests (assuming no IBOC) from about twice as far as Radio-Locator's predicted 150µV/m fringe contour while facing the pest, without any degradation of reception (splatter, desense, etc), that's basically something along the lines of what I've been looking for all along, for the most part. When I visit my grandma (who lives 1/3 mile from a 23kW and 50kW site in San Gabriel, CA and btw I'll be there this weekend again, probably with a PL-380, G8, SRF-59, SRF-M37W, DT-400W, Zenith Royal 705, Panasonic RQ-SW20 and Panasonic RQ-SW44V), my PL-380 struggles badly with many stations within the 2mV/m contour to around 100kHz or maybe more off the local pests' frequencies. Also, reception of a station I particularly wanted to hear (due to the fact that they don't run IBOC and have, from what I can tell when listening to them in their normal strong signal coverage area, full 10kHz audio) that's 10kHz off from one of the pests is totally degraded, and being between the 0.5mV/m and 0.15mV/m contours does not help. Kevin S |
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pianoplayer88key
--- In ultralightdx@..., D1028Gary@... wrote:
Speaking of loopsticks... any chance you could post a RSSI,DBU shootout of the stock loopsticks, and various size Amidon (or other) replacement loopsticks you've tested? Linking me to an existing article would be fine... except that the readings in one I found - Supercharging the Tecsun PL-380 - gives me some concern. I see a reading on the 7.5" loopstick of 49,00 on 1390-KJOX defined as "weak reception", with the stock loopstick showing 34,00 and "no reception". As I recall, you've said your stock PL-380 reading on 1450-KSUH is 75,25, and with the 7.5" stick it's 87,25. I've noticed that with similar readings on local pests on my PL-380, I get similar elevated RSSI surrounding strong locals. At the low end of the band, the article reports a stock reading of 18,12 and 7.5" loopstick reading of 40,18 on a TIS on 530. The time crunch is slowly resolving itself here, with all radio alignmentsGlad to hear the hamster is finally being able to take a breather from running on his wheel. :) When you do the shootout, I'd be interested, if possible, in knowing the sensitivity performance when in an area not saturated with RF (for example, where the highest RSSI on a stock Si4734-based radio is no higher than about 33dBu or so, although a 45dBu pest might be ok). Also, considering I know people that live within about 1/2 mile of 50kW transmitters (and on google maps have even seen a few which share a property line), how would the selectivity and overload resistance fare in a situation like that? (RSSI on a stock ULR on the pest should read at least 87-90dBu, preferably more like 95-98dBu or so.) Ultimately, If possible, I'd like to see an "ultimate" test. The pest should be reading 98dBu on the PL-360 without any antenna plugged in, and be the same direction as the target, for which you're at least twice as far as Radio-Locator's 150µV/m fringe contour, preferably without any saltwater path. My PL-380 and the G8 both fail that test miserably. I wonder if yours would fare any better? Also are the selectivity tests done while nulling the pest, or are they done while facing the pest? Also, when the TPs are winding down, I'd be interested in the results of another type of challenging(?) DX, and in this case it would test the radio (or antenna)'s nulling ability. What co-channel stations can you receive out from under locals that have maximum (audible - 25dB as indicated on Si4734 radios is not nearly enough) SNR (full quieting, if I may), for example ones that read at least 60,25, preferably more like 80,25, on a stock Si4734 radio? 73 and Good DX, |
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rick robinson <w4dst@...>
On 10/27/2010 7:00 PM, Stephen wrote:
I would especially like to know how it performs near a transmitter site.Stephen, It will perform just like every other ULR when it is in close proximity to a transmitter site. It will overload. This question has been asked it seems like a dozen times at least in the last 5 to 6 months, tested by many different list members in many different locations with many different ULRs, and the posted results have always been the same. They ALL overload and any new ULR radio will do the same, I'm almost positive of this. Many different list members have taken their time to answer this same question from you every time it comes up, which seems to be about every 10 - 14 days at most, maybe less. The answer hasn't changed, I doubt that it ever will, and I'm left wondering why this same question keeps getting asked. If you don't understand how radio front ends are overloaded by intense RF fields, please let one of the members know what is confusing to you and I'm sure someone will be glad to contact you off list and present you with a more detailed explanation. I have read the responses to your numerous questions regarding this issue and I assure you that all answers have all been correct and informative. You need to study them and learn from the information given you. This list is a great place to learn from some of the most experienced DXers in the US and worldwide. If you don't understand what they are saying, contact them off list. I don't think you realize who some of the list members are, how much they have contributed to MW DXing over the years and how fortunate we are to have them as list members. We even have an engineer from Silicon Labs who is a list member. If you'd like a partial list, contact me off list and I'll be more than happy to point them out. I am pleased to be able to be a member of a list which has so many knowledgeable members and I have learned a great deal from them. The Si4734 based radios are pretty much cutting edge and this list is attracting some "heavy hitters" in the DX community. I'll bet you $1000 US, that the combined experience of only a half dozen of them is well over 100 years, and probably closer to 200 years. We all need to learn from those more experienced than we are. If they take the time to answer our questions, we all need read their posts and to learn from their answers. I seriously doubt anyone on this list would refuse helping you but you must be willing to learn from them. Please, let's put this recurring overloading question to rest once and for all. Rick W4DST |
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Roy <stewroy@...>
Gary
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Is there any chance that the PL390 could be included in the upcoming shootout. I know it is a bit too large to be a true ultralight but it would be interesting to see how it compares with the other models especially since it has a longer ferrite antenna. Thanks Stew --- In ultralightdx@..., D1028Gary@... wrote:
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Kevin Schanilec
Thanks again Gary for getting new radios and running them through their paces, so that all can benefit from your generosity and insights!
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Kevin S Bainbridge Island, WA --- In ultralightdx@..., D1028Gary@... wrote:
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huelbe_garcia@fastimap.com <huelbe_garcia@...>
Hi -
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At a glance, this Tecsun PL-606 seems a back-fill for Tecsun DR-920 (analog set with frequency meter and poor selectivity on MW) --hg On 10/27/2010 9:00 PM, Stephen wrote: --- In ultralightdx@..., "dhsatyadhana" wrote:Hmm... it looks like a PL-310/380 without the numeric keypad? I see the Anon-co is selling the PL-310 for $5 less than this new model, which is interesting... It's small (just under 13 cubic inches), which is about 2/3 the volume of the PL-310/380, which is nice. It says it has multiple AM bandwidths, presumably all 6, which would be a boon, plus it has an antenna jack for FM/SW which could hopefully be converted to an AM jack per Laurie's neat mod.I wonder what the width is. I've been trying to find a good AM radio that will fit in my pants pocket comfortably, and the PL-380 is a bit too large for that.Alas, no sensitivity or other numeric specs. I see that it's 5/8" shorter than the PL-310, so that may mean that the ferrite is smaller as well. With the whip antenna extension, I wonder how short the stock antenna is??? Also, no mention of soft-mute level or whether it can tune in 1 khz increments on MW, which would be crucial for tough DXing.Hopefully it has less than my PL-380. I hear obvious pumping (although not quite as much as with the G8 in most cases) on stations right at the SM threshold, and it gets quite annoying very quickly.If anyone gets one, do let us know so that we can evaluate whether or not it is an ULR (and of course let us know how it performs)!I would especially like to know how it performs near a transmitter site. I know of places where people live within about 100-200 meters of some 50kW sites, for example, and so far (I was checking Google Maps, FCC, etc) I've even found a few where some people share a property line with the transmitter site. If it could pull in listenable and good quality (full 10kHz analog would be nice if possible) audio (strong enough SNR to overcome the soft mute on full-soft-mute radios, or strong enough SNR so that if it was FM it would engage the stereo decoder) on stations 10kHz off those mega pests (assuming no IBOC) from about twice as far as Radio-Locator's predicted 150µV/m fringe contour while facing the pest, without any degradation of reception (splatter, desense, etc), that's basically something along the lines of what I've been looking for all along, for the most part. When I visit my grandma (who lives 1/3 mile from a 23kW and 50kW site in San Gabriel, CA and btw I'll be there this weekend again, probably with a PL-380, G8, SRF-59, SRF-M37W, DT-400W, Zenith Royal 705, Panasonic RQ-SW20 and Panasonic RQ-SW44V), my PL-380 struggles badly with many stations within the 2mV/m contour to around 100kHz or maybe more off the local pests' frequencies. Also, reception of a station I particularly wanted to hear (due to the fact that they don't run IBOC and have, from what I can tell when listening to them in their normal strong signal coverage area, full 10kHz audio) that's 10kHz off from one of the pests is totally degraded, and being between the 0.5mV/m and 0.15mV/m contours does not help.Kevin S Bainbridge Island, WA --- In ultralightdx@..., "Michael Evans - Mike MBR" wrote:hi Tom. What is Tecsun playing at this time, new slip on or over whatever telescopic antenna, it's going to take more than that to open my hand of £s or $s, hope someone in the group has one on test, if one can aid on a extra antenna what is that telling us, down in pulling power, think about it. Mike MBR UK. --- In ultralightdx@..., "Tom Welch" wrote:Go to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110603998116&category=15051&emailtemplateid=26681356&sellerid=RiQT1QfV9O3tfaT4UdAQRA==&buyerid=OF5sKOndb34zpHYonwWX+A==&refid=store&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:LISTG Tom Welch Mesa, AZ |
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Antonios Kekalos <akekalos@...>
Amen!
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On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:38 PM, rick robinson <w4dst@...> wrote:
--
Tony, N4RNI Traverse City, MI EN74dq FISTS #14949, SKCC# 7117, NAQCC# 4774, QRP ARCI 7407, SWLR-RN072, WA8050SWL Not every conspiracy is a theory-AMC's Rubicon |
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Mike Mayer <mwmayer@...>
There are some basic principles that for me made it easy to understand what to expect in different situations. These are general guidelines that do not apply in all situations, but I have found them useful for understanding why things work or not.
First, for MW and lower SW frequencies signal to noise ratio is typically more important than sensitivity. The first impulse can be to focus on the signal and increase it with additional sensitivity, but better results can often be obtained by reducing noise.
Second, dynamic range is just as important as selectivity in the presence of strong signals. As a follow on, a design that has large dynamic range typically requires higher voltage and currents (i.e., more power) in the devices in question.
This leads to several results:
One, find a low-noise location for listening or use an external antenna that is away from in-house noise generators.
Two, large dynamic range is not possible in a small battery powered radio. AC powered tabletop receivers will always have much better dynamic range.
I think the above two results summarize the advice that has been given here multiple times. The two principles are part of what leads to that advice.
========================================================== From: ultralightdx@... [mailto:ultralightdx@...] On Behalf Of Antonios Kekalos
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:25 AM To: ultralightdx@... Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] Re: New DSP ULR radio
Amen! On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:38 PM, rick robinson <w4dst@...> wrote:
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Hi Stew,
Thanks for your suggestion about the new PL-390.
Because of the importance of comparing only recognized Ultralight
radios in the detailed Shootout reviews, for the past three years we have had a
policy of limiting the "contestants" to officially designated Ultralight radio
models, which are readily available for purchase by enthusiasts as either new,
or NOS units. There have been several "borderline" cases in the past (such as
the Tecsun PL-450 model) which slightly exceeded the size and weight
restrictions for ULR designation, but including such larger radios (with their
bigger loopsticks) in the Shootout reviews really isn't comparing
"apples to apples," since the larger radios always will have an AM
sensitivity advantage because of the larger antennas ( PL-450, PL-390,
PL-600, etc.).
The 20 cubic inch limit has been discussed extensively over the past 3
years, and will probably remain as a guideline for official Ultralight radio
designation indefinitely (at least in this Ultralightdx Yahoo group). That's not
to say that discussion of other radios isn't welcome on the Ultralightdx list--
we have always welcomed the discussion of all radios, and the discussion of
related engineering and technical aspects.
73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA,
USA)
In a message dated 10/27/2010 7:17:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
stewroy@... writes:
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cadcoast <jm392c@...>
--- In ultralightdx@..., D1028Gary@... wrote:
I must agree with Gary. If we stray too much from the ULR definitions we will be opening a "can of worms". Jim Z Milford, MA |
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bbwrwy
My personal opinion is there should be no further mention of the PL-390 within this group. I'm sure it is a nice receiver, but it's not an ultralight. If you wish to discuss it's attributes, form a discussion group dedicated to it and like sets.
Good DX. Richard. Richard Allen 36°22'51"N / 97°26'35"W (near Perry OK USA) |
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