Date   

Case for DT-200VX or DT-400W

Gary Kinsman
 

Hello all,

Has anyone found a nice compact case for the DT-200VX or DT-400W? I
wish Sangean would have included one as they do with some of their
other radios.

Regards,
Gary


Sangean DT-400W Excellent for DX Recordings... E100 Can Be Tricky

Gary DeBock
 

Hello Guys,
 
     One point in the DT-400W vs E100 discussion that was not covered in the Summertime Shootout was the comparison in audio recording ease, and recording quality.  Although perhaps not so important for casual DXers, for ocean beach fanatics, it can have serious implications.
 
     As known by many E100 owners, the model has a common tuning quirk in which the actual received frequency can differ by as much as 1 kHz from the displayed frequency, forcing the user to dial in "529" or "531" if reception is desired on 530 kHz.  Failure to do this may cause distortion in the received signal, which will actually be 1 kHz higher or lower than the desired station's actual frequency.  Of course, such distortion would be reproduced in any audio recording, to the detriment of intelligibility.
 
     As long as the E100's tuning quirk is exactly 1 kHz high or low and the user knows how to compensate for this, all is well and good-- the user can ultimately receive perfect audio.  But what if the tuning quirk offsets 500 hz, or 1.5 kHz?  Obviously, there would be a problem both in audio reception quality and recording quality.  Depending on the individual unit, it may be negligible or serious, but when recording DX signals thousands of miles distant, any radio-generated audio distortion is the last thing you need.
 
     Before making any audio recordings, E100 owners are advised to very carefully check their units for any tuning quirk, and find the optimum frequency offset, if any, for the best audio quality.  The time to do this is before you head for your DXpedition, and receive your first Africa, Asia or Australia DX station :>)
 
     The Sangean DT-400W has no such tuning quirk, and made crystal-clear mp3's of VOA Thailand-1575 and HLAZ-1566 at Grayland, WA for me last Friday. Its compatibility with audio recording devices seems great. With QSL's becoming tougher and tougher to coax out of reluctant stations, its always nice to have a clear mp3 recording as proof of your Ultralight DXing success.
 
     73,  Gary 




It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.


Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

Gary Kinsman
 

Hi Dennis,

I noticed yesterday that one of the Eton 1100 mAh batteries that came
with my Fry's refurb E10 has already gone bad. It wouldn't charge in
my Maha charger. I noticed that it's already corroded around the
positive contact.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "Dennis Gibson" <wb6tnb@...>
wrote:

I figured out why my E10 wasn't working up to expectations. I
realized that I hadn't charged the batteries for quite awhile so I
did that (inside the radio) and everything seems fine now. I
remember being pleased with the performance on MW when I got it last
November. That is after charging the supplied batteries in an
external charger. They were all .70 VDC and refused to charge inside
the radio, which is a refurb from Fry's. After doing that I've never
had trouble recharging them inside the radio.


Re: Sony SRF-M37V vs. Sony SRF-M37W

bbwrwy
 

Carl:

I have two M37V and a M37W. The three vary in sensitivity with the
M37W being the best. My second M37V is less sensitive than the first.
My guess is it all depends on the diligence of those in charge of
quality control.

I disassembled a M37V and aligned it. It's not something I would
recommend to the faint hearted. Sensitivity was improved slightly.

Richard Allen


Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

Galassi <w.matilda@...>
 

Hi Dennis,
we had a different feeling with the 7600s.
I consider my own 7600G, very similar to the GR one, only second to the super 2010.
The YB400 and the 1103 are also very good and even more sensitives but the "true ECSS" with inviduals LSB and USB controls and a very smooth fine tuning wheel are not common features into a pocket radio.
The synchro it's also good, but the locking window it'a a bit too wide for the real dx work into a crowded AM band, for my taste.

Best 73s and good DX!
Giampaolo Galassi, Italy





Dennis Gibson ha scritto:

I figured out why my E10 wasn't working up to expectations. I realized
that I hadn't charged the batteries for quite awhile so I did that (inside the radio) and everything seems fine now. I remember being
pleased with the performance on MW when I got it last November. That
is after charging the supplied batteries in an external charger. They
were all .70 VDC and refused to charge inside the radio, which is a
refurb from Fry's. After doing that I've never had trouble recharging
them inside the radio.

I ordered an E100 from the Shortwave Store, which is Durham Radio's US
store. I don't need another radio but does that ever seem to stop me
from buying them? Of course not!! Does it come with rechargeable
batteries? I had to laugh when I saw that the batteries the E10 came
with were 1100 mah NiMH's. That was after being amused by the 1300 mah
NiMH's that the Kaito KA1103 came with. When they first came on the
market the first NiMH's I bought were 1600 mah.

The KA1103 must be too big to qualify as an ultralight. That's too
bad; it's a really nice radio. I'd say it's the best buy in a PLL
portable radio with SSB. I was really disappointed with the Sony
ICF-SW7600GR and more or less stopped using it (except for when the
synchronous detection, which isn't nearly as good as on the ICF-2010,
was needed) when the Kaito arrived.
73

--- In ultralightdx@..., "Gary Kinsman" <gkinsman@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I compared the performance of several of my MW radios today, including the 7600GR, E10, E100 and DT-200VX (all of which are stock with no post-factory alignment).

The E10 is much better than the E100 on the low end of the band (probably due to its much larger ferrite bar), while the E100 is somewhat better than the E10 on the high end of the band. The 7600GR is better than the E10 or E100 on both ends of the band. The E100 is better than the DT-200VX on the low end of the band, and much better on the high end of the band.

So here are the overall rankings:

Low end: 7600GR, E10, E100, DT-200VX
High end: 7600GR, E100, E10, DT-200VX

Both the E10 and DT-200VX underperform on the high end of the band, relative to what I would expect.

Regards,
Gary

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

Dennis Gibson <wb6tnb@...>
 

I figured out why my E10 wasn't working up to expectations. I realized
that I hadn't charged the batteries for quite awhile so I did that
(inside the radio) and everything seems fine now. I remember being
pleased with the performance on MW when I got it last November. That
is after charging the supplied batteries in an external charger. They
were all .70 VDC and refused to charge inside the radio, which is a
refurb from Fry's. After doing that I've never had trouble recharging
them inside the radio.

I ordered an E100 from the Shortwave Store, which is Durham Radio's US
store. I don't need another radio but does that ever seem to stop me
from buying them? Of course not!! Does it come with rechargeable
batteries? I had to laugh when I saw that the batteries the E10 came
with were 1100 mah NiMH's. That was after being amused by the 1300 mah
NiMH's that the Kaito KA1103 came with. When they first came on the
market the first NiMH's I bought were 1600 mah.

The KA1103 must be too big to qualify as an ultralight. That's too
bad; it's a really nice radio. I'd say it's the best buy in a PLL
portable radio with SSB. I was really disappointed with the Sony
ICF-SW7600GR and more or less stopped using it (except for when the
synchronous detection, which isn't nearly as good as on the ICF-2010,
was needed) when the Kaito arrived.

73

--- In ultralightdx@..., "Gary Kinsman" <gkinsman@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I compared the performance of several of my MW radios today, including
the 7600GR, E10, E100 and DT-200VX (all of which are stock with no
post-factory alignment).

The E10 is much better than the E100 on the low end of the band
(probably due to its much larger ferrite bar), while the E100 is
somewhat better than the E10 on the high end of the band. The 7600GR
is better than the E10 or E100 on both ends of the band. The E100 is
better than the DT-200VX on the low end of the band, and much better
on the high end of the band.

So here are the overall rankings:

Low end: 7600GR, E10, E100, DT-200VX
High end: 7600GR, E100, E10, DT-200VX

Both the E10 and DT-200VX underperform on the high end of the band,
relative to what I would expect.

Regards,
Gary


Sony SRF-M37V vs. Sony SRF-M37W

Carl DeWhitt
 

I noticed that my 2 SRF-M37,s were different.The first one i bought
was the v model with the soon to be useless tv audio band(actually ,
it is already useless but will certainly be useless after the
conversion to DTV).The W model is minus the tv audio but still has the
weather band(which is useless on SRF M37 ).Has anyone noticed any
difference on performance on the am band ? I plan to compare them
myself to see if i notice any.


Re: Sony 7600GR (was Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland)

Gary Kinsman
 

You're welcome, John.

One thing to keep in mind is that the 7600GR is about the same size as
the E10, so it's a lot bigger than the E100 or G6. Hopefully it's
still small enough for your needs.

--- In ultralightdx@..., "John H. Bryant" <bjohnorcas@...>
wrote:

Thanks for the comments, guys! Sounds like there is a 7600 in my
future, too.

John B.


Re: Sony 7600GR (was Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland)

John H. Bryant <bjohnorcas@...>
 

Thanks for the comments, guys!  Sounds like there is a 7600 in my future, too.

John B.







At 11:43 PM 8/31/2008 +0000, you wrote:

Hi John,

Yes, the 7600GR has "real SSB." There is a switch on the side of the
radio to select USB or LSB.

The smallest discrete tuning step (and display increment) is 1 kHz.
There is an analog SSB fine tuning control wheel that permits very
clear reception of SSB for such a small portable. It actually
receives SSB better than a 2010, because the latter uses 100 Hz
steps, but on the 7600GR the SSB fine tuning is "stepless."

Here are some other pros/cons of the 7600GR:

Pros
- Very good build quality (made in Japan, believe it or not)
- Selectable sideband sync detector (not as good as that on the
2010, Sat 800 or E1, but still useful to reduce selective fading
distortion or interference)
- Couples very well with the Quantum Q-Stick (I believe Gerry Thomas
designed the Q-Stick for use with his 7600G, which preceded the GR)
- 100 memories (10 pages of 10)

Cons
- Sound quality is somewhat muffled on AM (especially compared to
the E10 or E100)
- No tuning meter (only a "Tune" indicator on the LCD)
- No tuning knob (just fast/slow buttons -- 10/9 kHz or 1 kHz on MW,
5 kHz or 1 kHz on SW)
- One side band is usually more muffled than the other in sync mode,
as delivered (this can be adjusted fairly easily)

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "John H. Bryant"
wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> Thanks for your comparison of the 7600GR, the E10 and the E100.
> Very interesting. I'm still looking for a small spotting receiver
> and I know that Gary DeB really likes the 7600GR. Could you help
> me out by describing a couple of things:
>
> Is the SSB on the 7600GR a "real SSB," allowing the selection of
> USB or LSB???
>
> What tuning rates can you use to tune across MW in SSB??? Please
> be 0.1 kHz as one choice :>)
>
> THANKS!
> John B.


Re: Sony 7600GR (was Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland)

satya@...
 

Hey John:

I'm in agreement with everything Gary says. I also like the
3-point-something khz SSB filter for ECSS work - SSB is quite usable after
the BFO has 15-20 minutes to stabilize (initially, it is nothing but
warbling..). I also like the continuously-variable RF gain, which makes
passive phasing of locals easier, as I can knock them down a bit to find
the null. The 910 khz images can be annoying, but would not be an issue
out at the beach. My synch doesn't have a muffled sideband - not sure how
common that is (or maybe they both are muffled, since regular AM mode has
noticeably better fidelity...).

Kevin

Hi John,

Yes, the 7600GR has "real SSB." There is a switch on the side of the
radio to select USB or LSB.

The smallest discrete tuning step (and display increment) is 1 kHz.
There is an analog SSB fine tuning control wheel that permits very
clear reception of SSB for such a small portable. It actually
receives SSB better than a 2010, because the latter uses 100 Hz
steps, but on the 7600GR the SSB fine tuning is "stepless."

Here are some other pros/cons of the 7600GR:

Pros
- Very good build quality (made in Japan, believe it or not)
- Selectable sideband sync detector (not as good as that on the
2010, Sat 800 or E1, but still useful to reduce selective fading
distortion or interference)
- Couples very well with the Quantum Q-Stick (I believe Gerry Thomas
designed the Q-Stick for use with his 7600G, which preceded the GR)
- 100 memories (10 pages of 10)

Cons
- Sound quality is somewhat muffled on AM (especially compared to
the E10 or E100)
- No tuning meter (only a "Tune" indicator on the LCD)
- No tuning knob (just fast/slow buttons -- 10/9 kHz or 1 kHz on MW,
5 kHz or 1 kHz on SW)
- One side band is usually more muffled than the other in sync mode,
as delivered (this can be adjusted fairly easily)

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "John H. Bryant"
<bjohnorcas@...> wrote:

Gary,

Thanks for your comparison of the 7600GR, the E10 and the E100.
Very interesting. I'm still looking for a small spotting receiver
and I know that Gary DeB really likes the 7600GR. Could you help
me out by describing a couple of things:

Is the SSB on the 7600GR a "real SSB," allowing the selection of
USB or LSB???

What tuning rates can you use to tune across MW in SSB??? Please
be 0.1 kHz as one choice :>)

THANKS!
John B.


Sony 7600GR (was Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland)

Gary Kinsman
 

Hi John,

Yes, the 7600GR has "real SSB." There is a switch on the side of the
radio to select USB or LSB.

The smallest discrete tuning step (and display increment) is 1 kHz.
There is an analog SSB fine tuning control wheel that permits very
clear reception of SSB for such a small portable. It actually
receives SSB better than a 2010, because the latter uses 100 Hz
steps, but on the 7600GR the SSB fine tuning is "stepless."

Here are some other pros/cons of the 7600GR:

Pros
- Very good build quality (made in Japan, believe it or not)
- Selectable sideband sync detector (not as good as that on the
2010, Sat 800 or E1, but still useful to reduce selective fading
distortion or interference)
- Couples very well with the Quantum Q-Stick (I believe Gerry Thomas
designed the Q-Stick for use with his 7600G, which preceded the GR)
- 100 memories (10 pages of 10)

Cons
- Sound quality is somewhat muffled on AM (especially compared to
the E10 or E100)
- No tuning meter (only a "Tune" indicator on the LCD)
- No tuning knob (just fast/slow buttons -- 10/9 kHz or 1 kHz on MW,
5 kHz or 1 kHz on SW)
- One side band is usually more muffled than the other in sync mode,
as delivered (this can be adjusted fairly easily)

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "John H. Bryant"
<bjohnorcas@...> wrote:

Gary,

Thanks for your comparison of the 7600GR, the E10 and the E100.
Very interesting. I'm still looking for a small spotting receiver
and I know that Gary DeB really likes the 7600GR. Could you help
me out by describing a couple of things:

Is the SSB on the 7600GR a "real SSB," allowing the selection of
USB or LSB???

What tuning rates can you use to tune across MW in SSB??? Please
be 0.1 kHz as one choice :>)

THANKS!
John B.


Re: DT-400W Alignment (was Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's...)

Gary DeBock
 

Hi Guy,
 
     Thanks again for the suggestion of drilling small holes in the DT-400W's digital board, to gain access to the 1400 kHz trimmer and AM IF transformers on the RF circuit board.
 
     Unfortunately, after completely disassembling one of the DT-400W's and observing the circuitry and foil traces on the digital board where the holes would need to be drilled, it is obvious that such drilling would be the electronic equivalent of a total lobotomy, destroying many components and foil traces essential for the digital board's proper function. The only practical solution appears to be the construction of a 14-pin plug-in jumper cable for connection of the two boards while providing space for alignment access, and also the construction of two smaller 2-pin plug-in jumpers for the other two connecting jacks between these boards.  This obviously would involve some time and effort, but if a significant number of new DT-400W owners report alignment QC issues similar to that reported by Richard, the enthusiast group would certainly benefit from having such an alignment resource. If Richard's DT-400W sensitivity issue proves to be a rare aberration, however,  the more logical solution would be for these DT-400W owners to return the unit to Sangean reporting inadequate AM sensitivity, and requesting a full AM alignment under the 90-day warranty policy (which I would recommend for Richard as an interim solution).  Sangean obviously is capable of aligning all these DT-400W units to a very high level of broadband AM sensitivity, so why not allow them to do so, under the warranty policy?  As long as our enthusiast group lacks full DT-400W alignment capability, that would be my suggestion as an interim solution for the unfortunate recipients of marginal DT-400W units.
 
     73,  Gary     




It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.


Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

John H. Bryant <bjohnorcas@...>
 

Gary,

Thanks for your comparison of the 7600GR, the E10 and the E100. Very interesting.  I'm still looking for a small spotting receiver and I know that Gary DeB really likes the 7600GR.  Could you help me out by describing a couple of things:

Is the SSB on the 7600GR a "real SSB," allowing the selection of USB or LSB???

What tuning rates can you use to tune across MW in SSB???  Please be 0.1 kHz as one choice :>)

THANKS!
John B. 





At 07:50 PM 8/31/2008 +0000, you wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I compared the performance of several of my MW radios today, including
the 7600GR, E10, E100 and DT-200VX (all of which are stock with no
post-factory alignment).

The E10 is much better than the E100 on the low end of the band
(probably due to its much larger ferrite bar), while the E100 is
somewhat better than the E10 on the high end of the band. The 7600GR
is better than the E10 or E100 on both ends of the band. The E100 is
better than the DT-200VX on the low end of the band, and much better
on the high end of the band.

So here are the overall rankings:

Low end: 7600GR, E10, E100, DT-200VX
High end: 7600GR, E100, E10, DT-200VX

Both the E10 and DT-200VX underperform on the high end of the band,
relative to what I would expect.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "Dennis Gibson"
wrote:
>
> Are a stock DT-400W and a stock E100 even in the same league or fair
> to compare to each other? I'm still thinking about getting one but
> I'm hesitant because the MW on my E10 isn't that great. It was
> refurbished so maybe that's why it was returned but it isn't aligned
> properly. Gary has offered to have a look at it so maybe I'll let
> him. I guess if I want an E100 I'd better get it while the single
> conversion type is still available.


Re: E100 "birdies" near 640 kHz

Gary Kinsman
 

Hi Kevin,

I live in Simi Valley, about 50 miles from KFI's location.

I was originally thinking along the same lines, but I don't have a
strong local on 1550, and rotating the radio doesn't change the
intensity of the het.

BTW, I think my E100 display is off in the opposite direction. When
the display shows 1 kHz high, the radio is tuned closer to the
desired frequency than when the display shows on frequency. In other
words, for 640 kHz, the display will show 641 kHz when tuned for
best reception.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., satya@... wrote:

Hey Gary:

You may be hearing an image two IF freqs (2 x 455 = 910) down from
a strong local, which is heterodyning with another station on 640;
do you have a fairly strong local station at 1550?

I have two locals at 1590 and 1680, and I get strong hets (if not
audio) on 680 and 770, respectively, especially during the day.
If I null 1590 and 1680, the hets down-band go away. So, maybe try
tuning to 640 and rotate the e100 to minimize the het, which might
tell you what direction the offending local is in?

Note also that the digital display on the e100 has been known to
be a khz off, so what appears to be 638 or 639 could actually be
639 or 640.

73 - Kevin S
Bainbridge Island, WA


Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

Guy Atkins
 

Gary,
 
Just another thought on this. What I did on another  radio I've owned (can't remember which model), I noted that there was a small amount of unoccupied PCB directly above the trimmer. That is, the portion of the upper PCB that is directly above the trimmer on the lower board did not have a component or a circuit trace...just bare board. I drilled a small hole through the top PCB, big enough for the small screwdriver needed to make the adjustment. Ta da! easy access to the trimmer for alignment.
 
Even the relocation of a trace (jumper around the hole) or relocating a simple component like a resistor is not too tough if it is in the way of the hole needing to be drilled.
 
Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ultralightdx@... [mailto:ultralightdx@...]On Behalf Of D1028Gary@...
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 2:17 PM
To: ultralightdx@...
Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

 
     Your suggestion of adjusting the 1400 kHz trimmer by a slow incremental method would certainly work well on a radio without such a hair-trigger adjustment tendency, Guy, although the risk of degrading the existing sensitivity due to an inability to "hit the peak" would be too great in the case of the DT-400W, in my opinion.
 
   
.


Re: E100 "birdies" near 640 kHz

satya@...
 

Hi Gary:

I see you're on pacbell.net, which probably means that KFI-LA on 640 is
butting heads with an image from KYCY-San Francisco, KXEX-Fresno, or
KWRN-Apple Valley on 1550, depending on where you are in California.

73 - Kevin

Hello all,

While comparing my E100 to my 7600GR and E10 -- all of which have 1
kHz tuning steps -- I hear hets near 640 kHz only on the E100, not on
the other two radios. So these hets are internally generated noises
or "birdies."

In the last day they've occurred on 637-639 kHz or 638-640 kHz, and
are strongest on the middle frequency (i.e., 638 or 639 kHz).

Does anybody else notice birdies near 640 kHz on their E100 units?

Thanks,
Gary


Re: E100 "birdies" near 640 kHz

satya@...
 

Hey Gary:

You may be hearing an image two IF freqs (2 x 455 = 910) down from a
strong local, which is heterodyning with another station on 640; do you
have a fairly strong local station at 1550?

I have two locals at 1590 and 1680, and I get strong hets (if not audio)
on 680 and 770, respectively, especially during the day. If I null 1590
and 1680, the hets down-band go away. So, maybe try tuning to 640 and
rotate the e100 to minimize the het, which might tell you what direction
the offending local is in?

Note also that the digital display on the e100 has been known to be a khz
off, so what appears to be 638 or 639 could actually be 639 or 640.

73 - Kevin S
Bainbridge Island, WA

Hello all,

While comparing my E100 to my 7600GR and E10 -- all of which have 1
kHz tuning steps -- I hear hets near 640 kHz only on the E100, not on
the other two radios. So these hets are internally generated noises
or "birdies."

In the last day they've occurred on 637-639 kHz or 638-640 kHz, and
are strongest on the middle frequency (i.e., 638 or 639 kHz).

Does anybody else notice birdies near 640 kHz on their E100 units?

Thanks,
Gary


E100 "birdies" near 640 kHz

Gary Kinsman
 

Hello all,

While comparing my E100 to my 7600GR and E10 -- all of which have 1
kHz tuning steps -- I hear hets near 640 kHz only on the E100, not on
the other two radios. So these hets are internally generated noises
or "birdies."

In the last day they've occurred on 637-639 kHz or 638-640 kHz, and
are strongest on the middle frequency (i.e., 638 or 639 kHz).

Does anybody else notice birdies near 640 kHz on their E100 units?

Thanks,
Gary


Re: Stock Sangean DT-400W Receives 6 TP's at Grayland

Gary Kinsman
 

Hi Dennis,

I compared the performance of several of my MW radios today, including
the 7600GR, E10, E100 and DT-200VX (all of which are stock with no
post-factory alignment).

The E10 is much better than the E100 on the low end of the band
(probably due to its much larger ferrite bar), while the E100 is
somewhat better than the E10 on the high end of the band. The 7600GR
is better than the E10 or E100 on both ends of the band. The E100 is
better than the DT-200VX on the low end of the band, and much better
on the high end of the band.

So here are the overall rankings:

Low end: 7600GR, E10, E100, DT-200VX
High end: 7600GR, E100, E10, DT-200VX

Both the E10 and DT-200VX underperform on the high end of the band,
relative to what I would expect.

Regards,
Gary

--- In ultralightdx@..., "Dennis Gibson" <wb6tnb@...>
wrote:

Are a stock DT-400W and a stock E100 even in the same league or fair
to compare to each other? I'm still thinking about getting one but
I'm hesitant because the MW on my E10 isn't that great. It was
refurbished so maybe that's why it was returned but it isn't aligned
properly. Gary has offered to have a look at it so maybe I'll let
him. I guess if I want an E100 I'd better get it while the single
conversion type is still available.


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