Date   

Re: New style of FSL........I think ?

Dean wayman
 

A little more info:

Spider weave coils or basket weave coils are very high Q that's why the crystal set radio builders use them .Combine a high Q tuning cap (ceramic insulators) and this loop has very sharp tuning ,enough so that even at BFO setting like in LW you get a very crisp tune .

Also the basket weave coils have very little distributed capacitance ,some thing that has been talked about a lot when the first FSL builders were tweaking their designs.

Used inside most houses this loop suffers from noise as any very sensitive antenna does ,as far as i know nothing can be done about that ATM.

Dean


Re: New style of FSL........I think ?

Tony Magon
 

Hi Dean


Thanks for the info - all ok

Regards

Tony VK2IC



On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:53 PM Dean wayman <dx_plains@...> wrote:
Hi :
The length will depend on what value of capacitor your going to use but these loops have been around 60 ft of litz.
the count 1200/660/275 etc. isn't so important as the AWG ,46 is best for MW.
Dean


Re: New style of FSL........I think ?

Dean wayman
 

Hi :
The length will depend on what value of capacitor your going to use but these loops have been around 60 ft of litz.
the count 1200/660/275 etc. isn't so important as the AWG ,46 is best for MW.
Dean


Re: New style of FSL........I think ?

Tony Magon
 

Hi Dean

How many turns of litz is required - or what is the length of Litz wire required


Regards

Tony VK2IC



On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 11:41 AM Dean wayman <dx_plains@...> wrote:

Because of the rising cost in Ferrite and Litz wire I have been thinking for some time about building a FSL that uses less .
It seemed to me that the wire part of the FSL is mostly fixed ,so maybe less ferrite in some way would be cause less stress on the pocket book?
After looking at everything on the net ,Pics of loops ,Gary's massive collection ,other peoples builds and all ,I decided to see if a spider weave or Basket weave was practical?

I made a 3 inch circle from wood and put 9 ,8x80mm Ferrite rods M400  on it , I have no pic of it . To this was added some turns of 1200/46 litz, And a variable tuning cap of 14-465 pF .This tiny loop worked very well giving a good boost in signal strength ,The nulls were very deep and sharp.

So I cut a plastic pipe of 4 inch size ,and installed 15 of the same size rods on it. Again 1200/46 Litz was wound on this .

I also wanted a pickup loop to set next to the radio ,because this loop would need to be mounted to some thing in the vertical plane ,so that it could be rotated to line up with different stations on the compass.

2 configurations were tried the first was 

This winding proved to be very difficult to produce and ,not of much benefit ,seemed to make the tuning on the loop mushy even adding bass to the signals,so it was abandoned.

The next was this, 4 turns at the center and then the loop winding and finally 4 more turns over that to complete the pickup coil.

A inner and outer winding was made of 660/46 Litz, terminated to a 1/4 inch Mono phone jack so the pickup loop could be removed for mutual coupling or transport etc.


Up to now I had  used 2 weeks of nearly full days testing, building ,rebuilding etc.but one more thing needed to be explored ,on this loop do you need space between the Ferrite and litz?  I'M not trying to start any arguments etc. but I needed to know ,So this was unwound and spacers were added to the Ferrite ,clear plastic hose worked just right .Everything was re-assembled for testing ,And a second loop was wound directly on the Ferrite rods ,this part of the whole experiment needs more work but so far I see no difference in gain.

Another test loop was also built on wood dowels and a center circle to use as a control to test Ferrite vs non Ferrite .As we would think the ferrite gave more boost of signal.

Several days later it was taken to a quiet location ,in testing it has very good nulls which are deep and gives plenty of boost to signals.
Comparable boost with my 6 inch flat wound loop ,,and easier to use because the radio sits near me and  needs no lazy-susan .

So I leave it to you ,If your looking to spend a bit less and have a decent antenna maybe give it a try ?

Test radio's
Tecsun PL 600
Sangean 909 X

Dean


New style of FSL........I think ?

Dean wayman
 

Because of the rising cost in Ferrite and Litz wire I have been thinking for some time about building a FSL that uses less .
It seemed to me that the wire part of the FSL is mostly fixed ,so maybe less ferrite in some way would be cause less stress on the pocket book?
After looking at everything on the net ,Pics of loops ,Gary's massive collection ,other peoples builds and all ,I decided to see if a spider weave or Basket weave was practical?

I made a 3 inch circle from wood and put 9 ,8x80mm Ferrite rods M400  on it , I have no pic of it . To this was added some turns of 1200/46 litz, And a variable tuning cap of 14-465 pF .This tiny loop worked very well giving a good boost in signal strength ,The nulls were very deep and sharp.

So I cut a plastic pipe of 4 inch size ,and installed 15 of the same size rods on it. Again 1200/46 Litz was wound on this .

I also wanted a pickup loop to set next to the radio ,because this loop would need to be mounted to some thing in the vertical plane ,so that it could be rotated to line up with different stations on the compass.

2 configurations were tried the first was 

This winding proved to be very difficult to produce and ,not of much benefit ,seemed to make the tuning on the loop mushy even adding bass to the signals,so it was abandoned.

The next was this, 4 turns at the center and then the loop winding and finally 4 more turns over that to complete the pickup coil.

A inner and outer winding was made of 660/46 Litz, terminated to a 1/4 inch Mono phone jack so the pickup loop could be removed for mutual coupling or transport etc.


Up to now I had  used 2 weeks of nearly full days testing, building ,rebuilding etc.but one more thing needed to be explored ,on this loop do you need space between the Ferrite and litz?  I'M not trying to start any arguments etc. but I needed to know ,So this was unwound and spacers were added to the Ferrite ,clear plastic hose worked just right .Everything was re-assembled for testing ,And a second loop was wound directly on the Ferrite rods ,this part of the whole experiment needs more work but so far I see no difference in gain.

Another test loop was also built on wood dowels and a center circle to use as a control to test Ferrite vs non Ferrite .As we would think the ferrite gave more boost of signal.

Several days later it was taken to a quiet location ,in testing it has very good nulls which are deep and gives plenty of boost to signals.
Comparable boost with my 6 inch flat wound loop ,,and easier to use because the radio sits near me and  needs no lazy-susan .

So I leave it to you ,If your looking to spend a bit less and have a decent antenna maybe give it a try ?

Test radio's
Tecsun PL 600
Sangean 909 X

Dean


Re: 558 kHz UnID-- Australian Asiistance Needed!

Gary DeBock
 

<<<    This is 100% 4AM Mareeba as Mareeba is mentioned near the end of the clip (with 0:18 to go). The number mentioned  is 131 873 so a networked program from 2GB Sydney.   >>>

Wow, thanks, Will!

Your help is greatly appreciated-- Australian English isn't my strong point. There were a couple of times during the Hawaii trip that I couldn't quite understand what Chris was trying to say :-)

73, Gary
    


-----Original Message-----
From: William Renton via Groups.Io <william_renton@...>
To: main <main@ultralightdx.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2019 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: [UltralightDX] 558 kHz UnID-- Australian Asiistance Needed!

Hi Gary,

This is 100% 4AM Mareeba as Mareeba is mentioned near the end of the clip (with 0:18 to go). The number mentioned  is 131 873 so a networked program from 2GB Sydney. 

Regards,

Will. 



On 30 Nov 2019, at 12:45, Gary DeBock via Groups.Io <D1028Gary@...> wrote:

     The following Australian AM-DX signal was received on 558 kHz at 1515 UTC on November 4th near the beach in Poipu, Hawaii (actually, in the back yard of Australian DXpedition partner Chris Rogers' condo, while Chris was sleeping in after chasing North American DX most of the night).
     Normally Australian signals would be easy to identify, but on 558 kHz in Hawaii there were JOCR, HLQH, NZ's Radio Sport and Radio Fiji One competing for attention on the frequency, as well as this station. Anyway, the Australian call-in talkback show host is introducing his topic of overpriced houses, and giving out a few phone numbers to call  https://dreamcrafts.box.com/s/y9lysayaz230vktyr7zv3uf0lec9pc4a
If any of our Australian members recognize the format, host or station, your opinions would be greatly appreciated!
     At the time I thought this might be the Super Radio network, but was unable to check any of the parallels like 531 or 639 because of a maze of other signals on the parallel frequencies (for example 531 had JOQG, BCC in Taiwan, Zhejiang in China, 4KZ and 2PM fighting it out at times, as well as a probable PI from NZ). File review after this Hawaii Ultralight DXpedition is turning into an interesting experience :-) 

73, Gary DeBock (DXing in Poipu, Hawaii with Chris Rogers and Craig Barnes from November 2-8) 


 


Re: 558 kHz UnID-- Australian Asiistance Needed!

William Renton
 

Hi Gary,

This is 100% 4AM Mareeba as Mareeba is mentioned near the end of the clip (with 0:18 to go). The number mentioned  is 131 873 so a networked program from 2GB Sydney. 

Regards,

Will. 



On 30 Nov 2019, at 12:45, Gary DeBock via Groups.Io <D1028Gary@...> wrote:

     The following Australian AM-DX signal was received on 558 kHz at 1515 UTC on November 4th near the beach in Poipu, Hawaii (actually, in the back yard of Australian DXpedition partner Chris Rogers' condo, while Chris was sleeping in after chasing North American DX most of the night).
     Normally Australian signals would be easy to identify, but on 558 kHz in Hawaii there were JOCR, HLQH, NZ's Radio Sport and Radio Fiji One competing for attention on the frequency, as well as this station. Anyway, the Australian call-in talkback show host is introducing his topic of overpriced houses, and giving out a few phone numbers to call  https://dreamcrafts.box.com/s/y9lysayaz230vktyr7zv3uf0lec9pc4a
If any of our Australian members recognize the format, host or station, your opinions would be greatly appreciated!
     At the time I thought this might be the Super Radio network, but was unable to check any of the parallels like 531 or 639 because of a maze of other signals on the parallel frequencies (for example 531 had JOQG, BCC in Taiwan, Zhejiang in China, 4KZ and 2PM fighting it out at times, as well as a probable PI from NZ). File review after this Hawaii Ultralight DXpedition is turning into an interesting experience :-) 

73, Gary DeBock (DXing in Poipu, Hawaii with Chris Rogers and Craig Barnes from November 2-8) 


 


558 kHz UnID-- Australian Asiistance Needed!

Gary DeBock
 

     The following Australian AM-DX signal was received on 558 kHz at 1515 UTC on November 4th near the beach in Poipu, Hawaii (actually, in the back yard of Australian DXpedition partner Chris Rogers' condo, while Chris was sleeping in after chasing North American DX most of the night).
     Normally Australian signals would be easy to identify, but on 558 kHz in Hawaii there were JOCR, HLQH, NZ's Radio Sport and Radio Fiji One competing for attention on the frequency, as well as this station. Anyway, the Australian call-in talkback show host is introducing his topic of overpriced houses, and giving out a few phone numbers to call  https://dreamcrafts.box.com/s/y9lysayaz230vktyr7zv3uf0lec9pc4a
If any of our Australian members recognize the format, host or station, your opinions would be greatly appreciated!
     At the time I thought this might be the Super Radio network, but was unable to check any of the parallels like 531 or 639 because of a maze of other signals on the parallel frequencies (for example 531 had JOQG, BCC in Taiwan, Zhejiang in China, 4KZ and 2PM fighting it out at times, as well as a probable PI from NZ). File review after this Hawaii Ultralight DXpedition is turning into an interesting experience :-) 

73, Gary DeBock (DXing in Poipu, Hawaii with Chris Rogers and Craig Barnes from November 2-8) 


 


Oklahoma TP DX 11-26-19

Richard Allen
 

With HLAZ coming in well early, it seemed that it might be a good morning for TP DX but things went downhill afterward and was dead by sunrise.

594 JOAK barely audible at 1137.

774 JOUB fair with English lesson at 1016.  (Usually not heard after KSPI 780 sign-on at 1200.)

828 JOBB het (no audio) at 1022.

972 HLCA het with barely audible talking at 1013, not heard later.

1323 unID trace of a signal at 1133.

1566 HLAZ fair with the best signal of morning at 1007 fading away at 1052; barely audible briefly at 1250.

Receiver: Skywave with ALA1530LNP aerial.


Richard Allen, near. Perry OK USA.


Re: Oklahoma TP DX 11-18-19

Paul Blundell
 

It is always good to read your reports.

--
Paul - Moderator
UltralightDX


Third AIR Station Received in Poipu, Hawaii

Gary DeBock
 

     Thanks to C.K. Raman on Real DX for identifying the Tamil language used by the lady in this recording of 720-AIR from Chennai (Madras), India at 1640 UTC on November 5th on the beach at Poipu, Hawaii  https://dreamcrafts.box.com/s/bdv9fc99v6ih97c03bwv0kyl09bxxjlg

This was the third Indian MW station received during the recent Hawaii trip, with file review still continuing. 918-AIR in Suratgarh and 927-AIR in Visakhapatnam were received using the "English news switchover" trick at 1530 UTC every morning, which works if the propagation is great, and the Chinese and Japanese on the frequencies aren't too strong. 720-AIR was "on the radar screen," though, having been noted with South Asian music on the waterfront of Hong Kong last April (before the tear gas started flying)  
https://dreamcrafts.box.com/s/0gfknh9ewvwr0cbnbv2jmklg3bcfiftz

73 and Good DX,
Gary DeBock (DXing with Craig Barnes and Chris Rogers in Poipu, Kauai, Hawaii from November 2-8)
7.5" loopstick CC Skywave Ultralight + 5" Frequent Flyer FSL antenna (shown in the attached photo in the foreground, next to Chris Rogers' 20" PK Loop and Tecsun PL-880 to the right, on the picnic table) 


Oklahoma TP DX 11-18-19

Richard Allen
 

TP DX this morning was slightly better than the past two days. Surprising was the post-sunrise reception of 567, 594, and especially 1566.
567 JOIK barely audible traces in KLIF-570 QRM at 1213. Barely audible at 1219-1223 (LSR at 1210).
594 JOAK barely audible at 1133. Barely audible-to-poor between 1211 and 1225.
702 unID heterodyne from northwest at 1145.
747 JOIB fair signal with severe WSB-750 QRM at 1131; barely audible talking at 1242-1247.
774 JOUB fair at 1123; poor talking at 1249.
828 JOBB piercing heterodyne with poor audio at 1129; poor in WCCO-830 QRM at 1240.
972 HLCA with strong het but no audio at 1126 and throughout listening session.
1566 HLAZ barely audible-to-poor at 1225 until finally fading away at 1236 (26 minutes past LSR).
Receiver: Skywave with ALA1530LNP

Richard Allen, near Perry OK USA


Greetings to all Radio friends

Alfredo Gallerati
 

Accept, please, my very best
greetings to all "Ultralight DX Radio Group".

IK7JGI, Alfredo Gallerati (Radiolistening Manager of The A.R.I Italian Amateur Radio Association)


WCBS-880AM off air tonight

Paul S. in CT
 

Copied from the WoR io group for USA/European listeners. Off-Air Time at 2300 EST Sat. to 0500 EST Sun. (0400 - 1000 UT Sun)
Regards
Paul S. in CT FN31nl


WCBS to be off the air on Saturday night
From: Glenn Hauser <wghauser@...>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 13:39:49 EST

Yesterday, 08:31 PM #1
Joylovepulse967
Location Central islip

WCBS 88 be off air

Attention, Cat's Whiskerers!

We've been informed that 50KW ND WCBS (AM) 880 New York will be taken off the air at 11PM EST Saturday night (11.16.2019) to perform antenna system adjustments. They will be done at or before 5AM ST Sunday morning.

Go crazy, everybody! ;-)

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: 'Mark Connelly' via NRC-AM <nrc-am@...>

Subject: [nrc-am] Fwd: [irca] WCBS to be off the air on Saturday night

FYI - DX opportunity with WCBS silent period - lots of 880 domestic and Latin America targets + 882 TA / TP with a major slopper / IBOC hasher out of the way.

Mark Connelly, WA1ION
South Yarmouth, MA

From: John Varljen via Groups.Io <IRCA@groups.io>
Date: Saturday, November 16, 2019

I saw this posted on another forum.

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?721426-WCBS-88-be-off-air

John Varljen


Re: coupling loop

mediumwavedx
 

Hi Dean,

I use this coupling method all the time.

Example, I have a 25 ft. vertical in the back yard connected with coax through an RF Systems 9:1 Magnetic balun at the base of the vertical. The coax runs into the house. Now how to couple that to the radio.

Find an old 4 inch ferrite bar. Strip the coax and using the two ends, wind about 15 turns  of insulated wire (#24 telephone wire works well) around the ferrite bar. Connect the coil to the ends of the coax.

The number of turns is not totally important but you don't want or need too many and you want enough to make a difference. You're not tuning a circuit here, just providing inductive field to couple to the radio.

Have fun!

Bill
SW Arizona
RADIO-TIMETRAVELLER
https://radio-timetraveller.blogspot.com


Re: coupling loop

Steve Ratzlaff
 

Hi Dean,

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but in the Files, the opening page at the bottom is a .pdf called "matching transformers using binocular core". Maybe that will give you some ideas.

https://ultralightdx.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Antennas%20and%20Equipment/Matching%20transformers%20using%20Binocular%20%20Core.pdf

I've never tried coupling a FSL to a radio other than the usual inductive coupling by setting the radio near the FSL.

73,

Steve

On 11/15/2019 6:13 PM, Dean wayman wrote:
Hi:

I was just thinking ;
I"ve have made a   dirty- lash-up  coupling loop for another project ,this is the first attempt that i have made and i want to get it right ,,but i was thinking is there a relationship between turns on the coupling loop (that sets next to the radio ) and the pickup loop on a FSL ? , ,,Should they be the same uH or different values ?

I'm thinking about  max transfer to the radio of the fsl ,,and effects on the loop too ,,any ideas ? thoughts ?

Thanks
Dean


coupling loop

Dean wayman
 

Hi:

I was just thinking ;
I"ve have made a   dirty- lash-up  coupling loop for another project ,this is the first attempt that i have made and i want to get it right ,,but i was thinking is there a relationship between turns on the coupling loop (that sets next to the radio ) and the pickup loop on a FSL ? , ,,Should they be the same uH or different values ?

I'm thinking about  max transfer to the radio of the fsl ,,and effects on the loop too ,,any ideas ? thoughts ?

Thanks
Dean


Re: Hawaii DXpedition Final Day-- 400w Australian Bonanza!

William Renton
 

Hi,

I own a PL-880 and can confirm it's a good performer with my PK Loop. However, it suffers from bad overload and spurs at my QTH. There are no problems when listening in an area away from 50 kW blowtorches. 

Great to read of another successful DXpedition! 

Regards,

Will.


Re: Hawaii DXpedition Final Day-- 400w Australian Bonanza!

Gary DeBock
 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your generous comments, and of course it was our great honour to welcome you to Hawaii!

<<<   The PL880 was modified to allow the loop to use the external antenna jack on MW which when supplied by the factory only functions on SW. I was very comfortable using this receiver and antenna combination and have dxed for many hours on both. Whilst the PL880 is not a "Ultralight receiver" in my opinion it is the pick of modern portables and performs extremely well.   >>>

I certainly agree that your PL-880 performed very well, and its SSB capability probably gave you the edge in tracking weak SSB carriers at sunset in comparison to the rather tricky CC Skywave SSB circuitry, which isn't nearly so user-friendly. When a DXer goes to an exotic new ocean beach location and chases unfamiliar transoceanic DX at both sunrise and sunset, he definitely needs to use the radio and loop that he fells the most comfortable with, and have full confidence in his ability to use them effectively, in all situations. There are already enough challenges with the weather, unfamiliar propagation and the occasional worker turning on an electrical switch at a neighboring swimming pool to kill reception :-)

<<<   Having said that I used the C Crane skywave radio at the condominium I stayed at, and the reception from some very desirable Pacific Island stations, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Tuvlalu, etc as well as many of the other stronger US mainland stations were audible at armchair level inside on the modified C Crane Skywave. They were further enhanced with the FSL. The FSL antenna and C Crane receiver together requires a fair bit of practice at getting the best out of it, and in that regard I am just a beginner.   >>>

The new, highly tweaked 5" Frequent Flyer FSL's are actually a pretty extreme type of antenna, where other factors have been sacrificed in order to get the highest possible, razor-sharp, high-Q gain performance from a pretty tiny antenna. Every single part of the new "Frequent Flyer" FSL's has been given an A/B test with similar parts in order to determine whether they actually do provide the highest possible tuning "Q." The end result is a tiny DXing "firecracker," but with the side effects of requiring ultra-sharp tuning, and tolerating some loss of high frequency DX station audio when zeroed in on the potent, high-Q gain boost. It's kind of like tweaking a compact passenger car into a drag strip queen-- you can make the "hotrod" go extremely fast, but you won't get the best results without some serious practice, and you can't expect the "hotrod" to act like a high-economy passenger car. Craig Barnes and I have both been using these fanatical little FSL's for over two years now, so we both have had lots of training with them in DXpedition environments. You certainly made the right decision in going with the easier-tuning PK Loop in your Kauai DXpedition listening, since precious live DXing time should not be used for "on the job training." On the other hand you now have all the components necessary to assemble the ultimate compact FSL DXing package, which may prove useful for you in the future after a little practice.

73, Gary
       



 

   


Re: Hawaii DXpedition Final Day-- 400w Australian Bonanza!

Paul Blundell
 

Excellent information and great to hear how well it works for you.

--
Paul - Moderator
UltralightDX