Date   

Re: Hi from a new member with a question.

Gary DeBock
 

OK Steven,

Actually I sent my message before seeing Steve's responses to your original post. Steve was experimenting with FSL antennas even before I started, and we have shared ideas and resources for many years. He is one of the top experts in FSL antennas, and all of his recommendations come from many years of experience. 

73, Gary

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven mont633@... [ultralightdx]
To: ultralightdx
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] Hi from a new member with a question.

 
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the info and advice, thanks very much also for the offer of the foam, but I should be able to track down a suitable thickness of dielectric here somewhere.
I will report back with my findings once I re wind my coil.
Thanks again.
regards,
Steven.



On Monday, 30 January 2017, 4:33, "D1028Gary@... [ultralightdx]" <ultralightdx@...> wrote:


 
Hi Steven,

<<<   My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape. 
Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.   >>>

This is Gary, one of the early FSL experimenters.

You can probably get a performance boost in your antenna by rewinding your coil over about 6mm of insulating foam, separating the coil and the ferrite rods. There was quite a bit of experimentation with this after Graham Maynard's initial ferrite sleeve article was published in 2011, and this concept was confirmed by multiple experimenters. If have any difficulty tracking down this type of foam in Scotland, I would be happy to send you a pack free of charge (it's pretty cheap).

Good Luck,
Gary DeBock, N7EKX (in Puyallup, WA, USA)
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mont633@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...>
To: ultralightdx <ultralightdx@...>
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:51 am
Subject: [ultralightdx] Hi from a new member with a question.

 
Hello,
I have just found your group and joined to day.
I live in Scotland, UK.
I found your group while googling about ferrite sleeve antennas, I am also a memeber of several other yahoo groups.

I have made a few air cored loops or magnetic loop antennas and have had great results.
Yesterday I made an approx 4" dia ferrite sleeve antenna with 30 off 10 mm x 140mm rods.

I am pleased with the results, and checks last night showed that it is on a par with a 2 foot air cored loop I made.

My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.






Re: Hi from a new member with a question.

steven
 

Hi Gary,
Thank you for the info and advice, thanks very much also for the offer of the foam, but I should be able to track down a suitable thickness of dielectric here somewhere.
I will report back with my findings once I re wind my coil.
Thanks again.
regards,
Steven.



On Monday, 30 January 2017, 4:33, "D1028Gary@... [ultralightdx]" wrote:


 
Hi Steven,

<<<   My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape. 
Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.   >>>

This is Gary, one of the early FSL experimenters.

You can probably get a performance boost in your antenna by rewinding your coil over about 6mm of insulating foam, separating the coil and the ferrite rods. There was quite a bit of experimentation with this after Graham Maynard's initial ferrite sleeve article was published in 2011, and this concept was confirmed by multiple experimenters. If have any difficulty tracking down this type of foam in Scotland, I would be happy to send you a pack free of charge (it's pretty cheap).

Good Luck,
Gary DeBock, N7EKX (in Puyallup, WA, USA)
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mont633@... [ultralightdx]
To: ultralightdx
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:51 am
Subject: [ultralightdx] Hi from a new member with a question.

 
Hello,
I have just found your group and joined to day.
I live in Scotland, UK.
I found your group while googling about ferrite sleeve antennas, I am also a memeber of several other yahoo groups.

I have made a few air cored loops or magnetic loop antennas and have had great results.
Yesterday I made an approx 4" dia ferrite sleeve antenna with 30 off 10 mm x 140mm rods.

I am pleased with the results, and checks last night showed that it is on a par with a 2 foot air cored loop I made.

My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.






Re: Hi from a new member with a question.

Gary DeBock
 

Hi Steven,

<<<   My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape. 
Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.   >>>

This is Gary, one of the early FSL experimenters.

You can probably get a performance boost in your antenna by rewinding your coil over about 6mm of insulating foam, separating the coil and the ferrite rods. There was quite a bit of experimentation with this after Graham Maynard's initial ferrite sleeve article was published in 2011, and this concept was confirmed by multiple experimenters. If have any difficulty tracking down this type of foam in Scotland, I would be happy to send you a pack free of charge (it's pretty cheap).

Good Luck,
Gary DeBock, N7EKX (in Puyallup, WA, USA)
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mont633@... [ultralightdx]
To: ultralightdx <ultralightdx@...>
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:51 am
Subject: [ultralightdx] Hi from a new member with a question.

 
Hello,
I have just found your group and joined to day.
I live in Scotland, UK.
I found your group while googling about ferrite sleeve antennas, I am also a memeber of several other yahoo groups.

I have made a few air cored loops or magnetic loop antennas and have had great results.
Yesterday I made an approx 4" dia ferrite sleeve antenna with 30 off 10 mm x 140mm rods.

I am pleased with the results, and checks last night showed that it is on a par with a 2 foot air cored loop I made.

My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.




Re: Hi from a new member with a question. (coil spacing off the ferrite)

steven
 

Hi Steve,
Thanks again for all the info, I will endeavour to get a hold of some of the appropriate Litz wire and see what improvement that makes over my stranded copper insulated wire.
I have had a look at the files section and found some very interesting bed time reading, thanks for that too.
Just before bed, I had a quick listen about on MW and at present I am receiving the station Carribean Beacon on 1610 AM with my FSL antenna indoors, a quick google tells me that the distance from my QTH in Scotland to Anguilla in the Carribean is 3968 miles, so I will be keen to see the difference with some Lits wire as a coil and a suitable dielectic wrapping.
Thanks very much again.
73
Steven.
Scotland.


On Sunday, 29 January 2017, 17:51, "Steve Ratzlaff ratzlaffsteve@... [ultralightdx]" wrote:


 
Hi Steven,
As you note, of course air is the lowest loss spacer but it's not very easy to wind a coil spaced over ferrite using just air.     :)      Styrofoam is probably the next least-lossy dielectric, and can often be found in sheets of varying thickness where  a single layer or maybe several layers add up to the correct coil spacing. As for Litz, if you can obtain some, try to get as many strands of #46 gauge as your budget allows. I would suggest that a minimum of 100 strands of Litz be used (100/46) otherwise the improvement over using plain non-Litz wire won't be much. 175/46 and 330/46 are common sizes and are good choices, with 330/46 working better. And then there's the "Big Litz" such as 660/46 which works even better but which is much more expensive. Also remember the larger Litz is larger in diameter so make sure your coil form width can handle the extra winding width, and also that you will need somewhat more turns for the larger size Litz you use, to tune the same frequency range using the same variable capacitor since the inductance for a given number of turns will decrease the larger the wire diameter that is used.
Good luck and please keep us informed of your experiments and results! And it must be fun to listen to Radio Caroline live; you're fortunate to be able to receive the signal, even in daytime.
73,
Steve AA7U
Arizona, USA

On 1/29/2017 10:17 AM, Steven mont633@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
 
Hi,
Thanks very much for all the replies to my question.
I will remove the winding and add something to give the correct "air gap" to 1/4"-5/16", and see how that goes, I will also get a hold of some Litz wire as I have seen it on ebay.

I have been using my ferrite sleeve antenna most of the day to listen to Radio Caroline live from the MV Ross Revenge via Manx Radio in the Isle of Man on 1368 kHz AM.
I am over 100 miles from the Isle of Man, but with my ferrite sleeve antenna or one of my air core loops the ground wave signal is good readable at my location in Scotland.

Thanks very much again for the help and advice.
73
Steven.
Scotland.





Re: Hi from a new member with a question. (coil spacing off the ferrite)

Steve Ratzlaff
 

Hi Steven,

As you note, of course air is the lowest loss spacer but it's not very easy to wind a coil spaced over ferrite using just air.     :)      Styrofoam is probably the next least-lossy dielectric, and can often be found in sheets of varying thickness where  a single layer or maybe several layers add up to the correct coil spacing. As for Litz, if you can obtain some, try to get as many strands of #46 gauge as your budget allows. I would suggest that a minimum of 100 strands of Litz be used (100/46) otherwise the improvement over using plain non-Litz wire won't be much. 175/46 and 330/46 are common sizes and are good choices, with 330/46 working better. And then there's the "Big Litz" such as 660/46 which works even better but which is much more expensive. Also remember the larger Litz is larger in diameter so make sure your coil form width can handle the extra winding width, and also that you will need somewhat more turns for the larger size Litz you use, to tune the same frequency range using the same variable capacitor since the inductance for a given number of turns will decrease the larger the wire diameter that is used.

Good luck and please keep us informed of your experiments and results! And it must be fun to listen to Radio Caroline live; you're fortunate to be able to receive the signal, even in daytime.

73,

Steve AA7U

Arizona, USA


On 1/29/2017 10:17 AM, Steven mont633@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
 
Hi,
Thanks very much for all the replies to my question.
I will remove the winding and add something to give the correct "air gap" to 1/4"-5/16", and see how that goes, I will also get a hold of some Litz wire as I have seen it on ebay.

I have been using my ferrite sleeve antenna most of the day to listen to Radio Caroline live from the MV Ross Revenge via Manx Radio in the Isle of Man on 1368 kHz AM.
I am over 100 miles from the Isle of Man, but with my ferrite sleeve antenna or one of my air core loops the ground wave signal is good readable at my location in Scotland.

Thanks very much again for the help and advice.
73
Steven.
Scotland.



Re: Hi from a new member with a question. (coil spacing off the ferrite)

steven
 

Hi,
Thanks very much for all the replies to my question.
I will remove the winding and add something to give the correct "air gap" to 1/4"-5/16", and see how that goes, I will also get a hold of some Litz wire as I have seen it on ebay.

I have been using my ferrite sleeve antenna most of the day to listen to Radio Caroline live from the MV Ross Revenge via Manx Radio in the Isle of Man on 1368 kHz AM.
I am over 100 miles from the Isle of Man, but with my ferrite sleeve antenna or one of my air core loops the ground wave signal is good readable at my location in Scotland.

Thanks very much again for the help and advice.
73
Steven.
Scotland.


On Sunday, 29 January 2017, 15:07, "Steve Ratzlaff ratzlaffsteve@... [ultralightdx]" wrote:


 
Hi Steven,
Congrats on your first FSL success. Some of us have determined, back when FSLs were first heard about and lots of experimentation was going on, that the coil should be spaced about 1/4" to about 5/16" off the ferrite for optimum FSL performance. Use of a low loss material, with styrofoam being optimum, to space the coil off the ferrite also helps. (And of course using Litz wire for the coil helps even more, if you can obtain/afford that.)
73,
Steve

On 1/29/2017 5:50 AM, mont633@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
 


My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.




Re: Hi from a new member with a question. (coil spacing off the ferrite)

Steve Ratzlaff
 

Hi Steven,

Congrats on your first FSL success. Some of us have determined, back when FSLs were first heard about and lots of experimentation was going on, that the coil should be spaced about 1/4" to about 5/16" off the ferrite for optimum FSL performance. Use of a low loss material, with styrofoam being optimum, to space the coil off the ferrite also helps. (And of course using Litz wire for the coil helps even more, if you can obtain/afford that.)

73,

Steve


On 1/29/2017 5:50 AM, mont633@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
 



My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.



Re: Hi from a new member with a question.

bill@...
 

I believe that the inductance of the coil is a function of the average
permeability of what occupies the interior of the coil. I do not think
that location within that area makes any difference, it is certainly not
in the equations.

My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the
ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.


Hi from a new member with a question.

steven
 

Hello,
I have just found your group and joined to day.
I live in Scotland, UK.
I found your group while googling about ferrite sleeve antennas, I am also a memeber of several other yahoo groups.

I have made a few air cored loops or magnetic loop antennas and have had great results.
Yesterday I made an approx 4" dia ferrite sleeve antenna with 30 off 10 mm x 140mm rods.

I am pleased with the results, and checks last night showed that it is on a par with a 2 foot air cored loop I made.

My question is, how importaint is the "air gap" between the outer of the ferrite rods and the coil or winding over the top of the ferrite rods.
At present I have just wound approx 20 turns of insulated wire over the top of the duct tape that is holding the ferrite rods over the cardboard loop out of a roll of wide wasking tape.

Results are good, but I was wondering if reception would improve any with the 5 mm or so air gap between the ferrite rods and the winding.

Thanks very much in advance for any help or info.
Regards,
Steven.
Scotland.




Re: [IRCA] Oklahoma TP DX 1/26/17

Nick Hall-Patch
 

And, for your 518kHz, Mike, how about Navtex?

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/navtex.htm

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/navtex.htm (look at NAVAREA IV (North) as most likely? )

best wishes,

Nick


At 14:00 26-01-17, Mike Irizarry wrote:
Expert DXers, I was listening this morning here in NW Chicago on 520Khz and
detected a carrier for the second time in the last week. I'm pretty sure
its a carrier because it fades up and down and comes in stronger on
antennas oriented SE and South. New to this but cant find any info on what
this might be. I thought it might be TIS but I looked at the list and could
not find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Also, picked up what
sounded like facsimile transmission on 518-519AM using LSB. Southern
direction. I made a recording. Sounds like weather fax but looked at the
NOAA list and see nothing on that frequency. Again, any help would be
appreciated.
Mike

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Richard N Allen <richarda@...>
wrote:

JOUB-774 was heard with poor signal fading in and out from 1135 until 1252
GMT. Also heard carrier signals from JOBB-828 and V7AB-1098.

Good DX.

Richard Allen,
near Perry OK USA,
Skywave & FSL.

Sent from my iPad

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dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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_______________________________________________
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Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
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To Post a message: irca@...

_______________________________________________
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IRCA@...
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Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers

For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org

To Post a message: irca@...
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada


Oklahoma TP DX 1/26/17

bbwrwy
 

JOUB-774 was heard with poor signal fading in and out from 1135 until 1252 GMT. Also heard carrier signals from JOBB-828 and V7AB-1098.

Good DX.

Richard Allen,
near Perry OK USA,
Skywave & FSL.
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The Bagpiper

Jordan Dobrikin <jjdobrikin@...>
 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jordan Dobrikin <jjdobrikin@...>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: The Bagpiper
To: "poikaa3 ." <poikaarod@...>


Hi
Are Scot or Irish? 
My wife was Scot, a lowlander, no Tartan
73 de Jordan ve7jjd

On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 1:00 PM, poikaa3 . <poikaarod@...> wrote:
Time is like a river.
You cannot touch the water twice, because the flow that has passed will never pass again. Enjoy every moment of life.
 
As a bagpiper, I play many gigs. Recently I was asked by a funeral director to play at a graveside service for a homeless man.
He had no family or friends, so the service was to be at a pauper's cemetery in the Nova Scotia back country.  
As I was not familiar with the backwoods, I got lost and, being a typical man, I didn't stop for directions.   I finally arrived an hour late and saw the funeral guy had evidently gone and the hearse was nowhere in sight. There were only the diggers and crew left and they were eating lunch. I felt badly and apologized to the men for being late.
 
I went to the side of the grave and looked down and the vault lid was already in place. I didn't know what else to do, so I started to play.
The workers put down their lunches and began to gather around. I played out my heart and soul for this man with no family and friends.
I played like I've never played before for this homeless man.  
And as I played "Amazing Grace", the workers began to weep. They wept, I wept, we all wept together.
 
When I finished, I packed up my bagpipes and started for my car. Though my head was hung low, my heart was full.
 As I opened the door to my car, I heard one of the workers say, "I never seen anything like that before, and I've been putting in septic tanks for twenty years."
 
Apparently, I'm still lost....it's a man thing.  
 
 
When you have stopped laughing be sure to forward this on to others who would enjoy a good story.                                                           
 
 
73  Rod KB8DNS



--
73 Jordan VE7JJD



--
73 Jordan VE7JJD


Re: Large Backyard MW Antennas

Gary DeBock
 

Thanks for your observations and comments, Todd.

<<<   Gary might share his experiences with the relative performance of FSL and small loops versus larger antennas such as flags and beverages at more optimal coastal listening sites. Some interesting pictures have been posted of smaller portable flag antennas used at coastal DX monitoring sites. The recent Japanese / USA west coast DXpedition is one example. When different types of antennas are used on DXpeditions at the same listening site, the reception results and relative strengths indicate receiving system efficiency. Man-made noise interference is often lower at coastal listening sites compared to a home suburban backyard system. Line of sight to the horizon is desirable for all DX from LW to SHF, hence why coastal listening sites provide such impressive TP DX results when suitable signal propagation is open.   >>>

During major ocean cliff DXpeditions there are usually multiple antenna and receiver combinations deployed, and of course there is a pretty long track record of the performance of the Ultralight + FSL combos against the Perseus-SDR + small broadband loop combos. The first major comparison of these was during the record-breaking July 2014 Rockwork 4 DXpedition, during which far more New Zealand stations were received (88 total) than ever before here on the North American west coast.

Because of the spectrum-capture capability Chuck's Perseus-SDR +15' x 15' broadband loop (assisted by an 11 dB preamp) received the vast majority of stations (87), but he admitted that the Tecsun PL-380 + 15" FSL combination could usually provide better signal quality on the lower MW frequency Kiwi stations. One weak (and rare) Kiwi station was received only on the ULR + FSL combination-- 585-Radio Ngati Porou. The single-optimized-frequency advantage of the tuned, High-Q FSL antennas makes them pretty tough competitors on the lower MW frequencies, signal-for-signal. Of course they can only tune one frequency at a time, though, so the total DX number of DX stations that they can receive is always much fewer than the small broadband loops can receive. One other related factor is that the $50 ULR's are nowhere near as sensitive and selective as the Perseus-SDR's, so the fact that the FSL antennas can make such a combo very competitive on the lower MW frequencies is a pretty astonishing fact. Once the FSL antennas are adapted for use with the Perseus-SDR and other communication receivers, such a combo would probably become the new "King of the Hill" on ocean cliffs, frequency-for-frequency.

73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA)

     


-----Original Message-----
From: toddemslie@... [ultralightdx]
To: ultralightdx <ultralightdx@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 19, 2017 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] Large Backyard MW Antennas

 
 
Correct Alex, all of the above is valid.
 
At my home, a 120 ft wire backyard antenna + Icom R8500 is first checked to see if trans-Pacific AM carriers are in from Hawaii, USA, or Mexico. Assuming the carriers are either very weak or not present, it is not worthwhile switching on the Tecsun ULR + 40" PVC loop. During some evenings around 2000 LT, the TP carriers are above average in strength. This indicates it is worthwhile operating the ULR + loop outdoors, and monitoring 1380, 1500, 1570, 1580 KHz TP channels. This is a basic yes/no filter system for proceeding to the next level.
 
A more ideal setup is a relatively large backyard flag antenna fixed towards the USA. Higher gain antennas often produce lower noise levels by virtue of the directional beamwidth attenuating noise from noise outside the antennas main front forward lobe. Increased weak S/N translates to a longer DX window period. A Drake series communications receiver and backyard low noise flag antenna should outperform a small size FSL or loop + ULR, all other factors approximately equal. Given that it is more convenient and cheaper to DX from home, for those with available land space, some effort should be used to investigate higher relative gain receiving systems for use in conjunction with smaller size and gain ULR systems.
 
There are situations where a ULR + FSL or small loop will outperform a large receiving system back home. One example is New Zealand MW signals levels into eastern Australia. NZ MW is considerably stronger on ULR portable systems when operation is on or near a listening site facing the Pacific Ocean. My home location is some 15 miles inland from the coast, hence New Zealand, and TP signals are highly reduced in signal strength, mainly due to terrain blockage.
 
Assuming I was DXing from home on the west coast USA, weak carrier reception would be first checked on a communications receiver before venturing outside to turn on a ULR + loop / FSL at ~ 0600 LT early morning.
 
Gary might share his experiences with the relative performance of FSL and small loops versus larger antennas such as flags and beverages at more optimal coastal listening sites. Some interesting pictures have been posted of smaller portable flag antennas used at coastal DX monitoring sites. The recent Japanese / USA west coast DXpedition is one example. When different types of antennas are used on DXpeditions at the same listening site, the reception results and relative strengths indicate receiving system efficiency. Man-made noise interference is often lower at coastal listening sites compared to a home suburban backyard system. Line of sight to the horizon is desirable for all DX from LW to SHF, hence why coastal listening sites provide such impressive TP DX results when suitable signal propagation is open.
 
Regards,
 
Todd


Re: Large Backyard MW Antennas

Todd
 

<I suppose that what you are asking (or proposing) is whether a home QTH with large high performance antenna(s) and otherwise outstanding RX performance should be used as a early warning system as a precursor for running down to the beach with smaller antenna(s) and poor performance portable receivers?>
 
Correct Alex, all of the above is valid.
 
At my home, a 120 ft wire backyard antenna + Icom R8500 is first checked to see if trans-Pacific AM carriers are in from Hawaii, USA, or Mexico. Assuming the carriers are either very weak or not present, it is not worthwhile switching on the Tecsun ULR + 40" PVC loop. During some evenings around 2000 LT, the TP carriers are above average in strength. This indicates it is worthwhile operating the ULR + loop outdoors, and monitoring 1380, 1500, 1570, 1580 KHz TP channels. This is a basic yes/no filter system for proceeding to the next level.
 
A more ideal setup is a relatively large backyard flag antenna fixed towards the USA. Higher gain antennas often produce lower noise levels by virtue of the directional beamwidth attenuating noise from noise outside the antennas main front forward lobe. Increased weak S/N translates to a longer DX window period. A Drake series communications receiver and backyard low noise flag antenna should outperform a small size FSL or loop + ULR, all other factors approximately equal. Given that it is more convenient and cheaper to DX from home, for those with available land space, some effort should be used to investigate higher relative gain receiving systems for use in conjunction with smaller size and gain ULR systems.
 
There are situations where a ULR + FSL or small loop will outperform a large receiving system back home. One example is New Zealand MW signals levels into eastern Australia. NZ MW is considerably stronger on ULR portable systems when operation is on or near a listening site facing the Pacific Ocean. My home location is some 15 miles inland from the coast, hence New Zealand, and TP signals are highly reduced in signal strength, mainly due to terrain blockage.
 
Assuming I was DXing from home on the west coast USA, weak carrier reception would be first checked on a communications receiver before venturing outside to turn on a ULR + loop / FSL at ~ 0600 LT early morning.
 
Gary might share his experiences with the relative performance of FSL and small loops versus larger antennas such as flags and beverages at more optimal coastal listening sites. Some interesting pictures have been posted of smaller portable flag antennas used at coastal DX monitoring sites. The recent Japanese / USA west coast DXpedition is one example. When different types of antennas are used on DXpeditions at the same listening site, the reception results and relative strengths indicate receiving system efficiency. Man-made noise interference is often lower at coastal listening sites compared to a home suburban backyard system. Line of sight to the horizon is desirable for all DX from LW to SHF, hence why coastal listening sites provide such impressive TP DX results when suitable signal propagation is open.
 
Regards,
 
Todd


Re: Large Backyard MW Antennas

Russ Edmunds
 

But one could always go to a beachfront motel, rent a room, and put up antennas on the beach, run cable in and DX in comfort.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2bjh@...>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (4) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 4);
modified Sony ICF2010's (3) w/APS9B @ 15';
modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:59 AM, winston376@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:
 

Todd,


I suppose that what you are asking (or proposing?)  is whether a home QTH with large high performance antenna(s) and otherwise outstanding RX performance should be used as a early warning system as a precursor for running down to the beach with smaller antenna(s) and poor performance portable receivers??

My thoughts are  that I would prefer to be at my home QTH drinking my wine and eating warm quiche in my easy chair rather than crouching on a cold and wet bench at the beach with the wind blowing sand in my bologna sandwich.

Let me know if I've misinterpreted your post.
Alex



Re: Large Backyard MW Antennas

Alex P
 

Todd,

I suppose that what you are asking (or proposing?)  is whether a home QTH with large high performance antenna(s) and otherwise outstanding RX performance should be used as a early warning system as a precursor for running down to the beach with smaller antenna(s) and poor performance portable receivers??

My thoughts are  that I would prefer to be at my home QTH drinking my wine and eating warm quiche in my easy chair rather than crouching on a cold and wet bench at the beach with the wind blowing sand in my bologna sandwich.

Let me know if I've misinterpreted your post.
Alex


Re: Large Backyard MW Antennas

Gary DeBock
 

Hi Todd,

<<<   Perhaps some on this list might share positives and negatives with various types of outdoor MW antennas. While a Drake R8B, low noise RF preamplifier, and horizontal high elevation flag will often greatly excel ULR portable systems, they are nevertheless useful for early warning signal detection before MW signal propagation peaks to certain areas. It is often only during around the peak of an opening that signals are just barely strong enough for detection on a small ULR system.   >>>

During major ocean cliff DXpeditions the combination of a 30-inch MW loopstick Sony ICF-2010 SSB spotting receiver (photo attached, and also posted at http://www.mediafire.com/view/6ct6za912sd2fu9/Hot-Rod-Paradise-02.jpg  ) and the larger FSL antennas (15 inch and 17 inch) can usually detect the very weakest of transoceanic carrier signals, especially after the mega-FSL's provide their large inductive coupling boost to the modified Sony portable. Of course, whether or not this combination can dig out audio from such weak carriers is another matter entirely, and the Sony portable cannot measure the transmitted frequencies with the accuracy of a table receiver. The combination described above was used to detect a fairly good carrier on 1701 kHz during the July 2012 Cape Perpetua (Oregon) DXpedition, resulting in an English language recording (on a modified PL-380) that Australian DXers said was probably the Voice of Charity.

SSB reception is a huge advantage in detecting extremely weak MW signals, and SSB spotting receivers have been used with ULR's since the very beginning of the Ultralight radio boom in late 2007. The modified SSB spotting receivers (with enhanced MW loopsticks) are critical to ULR DXpedition success at the ocean cliff sites, and provide an ongoing assessment of changing propagation, transoceanic targets and unusual opportunities. Even at home sites the SSB spotting receivers can immediately assess whether transoceanic propagation is worth your DXing effort, or whether the band is in the clunker mode.

73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA)   

   


-----Original Message-----
From: toddemslie@... [ultralightdx]
To: ultralightdx Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2017 4:24 pm
Subject: [ultralightdx] Large Backyard MW Antennas

 
While reading through all the ULR reports of weak AM carrier reception from Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, Polynesia, etc, it makes sense for certain DXers to use a larger signal pickup system for early warning detection. Before venturing outside with PVC and/or FSL antennas for use with ULR portables, a large backyard antenna system such as a flag, sloper, EWE, or low noise random wire antenna would usually detect weak carriers either audibly or visually long before detection on ULR systems. A large higher gain backyard antenna system would first be checked before venturing outside to confront good or otherwise weather conditions. FFT spectrum analysers are capable of sub-audible carrier detection long before the carrier can be audibly heard. When an accurate up to date carrier list to XXX.XXX KHz accuracy, i.e. within 1 Hz, carriers such as 702 KHz ABC Sydney can often be discriminated from Asians or Europeans on the same 9 KHz channel. With this in mind, a 1 Hz precision frequency carrier list is being currently compiled for all MW receivable at my location.
 
The most efficient MW antennas generally be need to be relatively physically large, and mounted outside well away from the house RFI noise field. Based on 160 metre (1.8 MHz) ham radio reception results, a rotatable large horizontal flag mounted on a high tower is likely the ultimate compromise for a backyard MW DX antenna. But a more practical antenna might be one or more fixed vertical flag antennas. A DXer near the west U.S. coast might consider installing a large outdoor flag antenna beaming towards Japan/Korea/China.

The strong signal handling performance with a Drake R8 / R8A / R8B is usually sufficiently high for high gain signal input across the complete MW band, with no resulting internally generated spurious signal images from local stations. All ULRs would suffer from desensitisation and/or image/IMD when connected to high gain wideband antennas in suburban metro high signal areas.
 
Perhaps some on this list might share positives and negatives with various types of outdoor MW antennas. While a Drake R8B, low noise RF preamplifier, and horizontal high elevation flag will often greatly excel ULR portable systems, they are nevertheless useful for early warning signal detection before MW signal propagation peaks to certain areas. It is often only during around the peak of an opening that signals are just barely strong enough for detection on a small ULR system
 
Regards,
 
Todd
Sydney, AU


Large Backyard MW Antennas

Todd
 

While reading through all the ULR reports of weak AM carrier reception from Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, Polynesia, etc, it makes sense for certain DXers to use a larger signal pickup system for early warning detection. Before venturing outside with PVC and/or FSL antennas for use with ULR portables, a large backyard antenna system such as a flag, sloper, EWE, or low noise random wire antenna would usually detect weak carriers either audibly or visually long before detection on ULR systems. A large higher gain backyard antenna system would first be checked before venturing outside to confront good or otherwise weather conditions. FFT spectrum analysers are capable of sub-audible carrier detection long before the carrier can be audibly heard. When an accurate up to date carrier list to XXX.XXX KHz accuracy, i.e. within 1 Hz, carriers such as 702 KHz ABC Sydney can often be discriminated from Asians or Europeans on the same 9 KHz channel. With this in mind, a 1 Hz precision frequency carrier list is being currently compiled for all MW receivable at my location.
 
The most efficient MW antennas generally be need to be relatively physically large, and mounted outside well away from the house RFI noise field. Based on 160 metre (1.8 MHz) ham radio reception results, a rotatable large horizontal flag mounted on a high tower is likely the ultimate compromise for a backyard MW DX antenna. But a more practical antenna might be one or more fixed vertical flag antennas. A DXer near the west U.S. coast might consider installing a large outdoor flag antenna beaming towards Japan/Korea/China.

The strong signal handling performance with a Drake R8 / R8A / R8B is usually sufficiently high for high gain signal input across the complete MW band, with no resulting internally generated spurious signal images from local stations. All ULRs would suffer from desensitisation and/or image/IMD when connected to high gain wideband antennas in suburban metro high signal areas.
 
Perhaps some on this list might share positives and negatives with various types of outdoor MW antennas. While a Drake R8B, low noise RF preamplifier, and horizontal high elevation flag will often greatly excel ULR portable systems, they are nevertheless useful for early warning signal detection before MW signal propagation peaks to certain areas. It is often only during around the peak of an opening that signals are just barely strong enough for detection on a small ULR system
 
Regards,
 
Todd

Sydney, AU



Oklahoma TP DX 1/17/17

bbwrwy
 

1098 kHz V7AB? a weak carrier heard from 0621 GMT (Majuro sunset at 0638); barely audible man talking at 0703-0704.
1566 HLAZ with traces of a signal at 1326; barely audible from 1334 until close-down at 1344:30 (LSR at 1340). I was able to recognize Japanese language talk briefly.

Richard Allen,
near Perry OK USA,
Skywave & FSL.
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Stealth Scanner Bag MK3 – January 2017

Paul Blundell
 


While this has been setup for radio scanning, the same ideas could be used for amateur handhelds and similar.



Stealth Scanner Bag MK3 – January 2017


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