Date   

Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Michael <michael.setaazul@...>
 

On 26.02.16 22:08, Russ Edmunds wb2bjh@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
. . .
So, in short, no demand, no receivers.
Russ Edmunds
----------------------------------
In short : good fortune for US listeners to AM !

In the UK we are being coerced into procurement of
DAB radios. Expensive. Temperamental reception due
to 225MHz propagation. Many need tethering to an
external antenna. High battery consumption, so additionally
tethered to a mains-outlet. Due to low data rates,
audio quality is often inferior to FM. The main
"advantage" seems to be the increased number of
sound-alike music stations. Hmm... Of course,
we have some digital radio on the television receiver.
And, of course, we have thousands of stations on
webradio, but that requires an expensive
wi-fi radio or computer+hifi and is fiddly to set up
and tune in - compared to an instant two-knob
battery-drain AM radio. Sigh...

Ain't progress GREAT :-)

Michael


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Russ Edmunds
 

Whatever digital receivers there were didn't sell - and only partly on account of cost. Consumers simply didn't understand the concept. Here it was sold as "High Definition" which really means nothing to the average person. I suspect that most Americans have never heard an AM IBOC digital transmission. And many of those who have can't discern any significant improvement over analog. That's not surprising when one considers that a majority of US AM's are formatted as news, talk, sports, or preaching - after all, how much fidelity improvement can you get with speech ?

IBOC Digital transmission also simply isn't well suited to North American AM at all. It's hard to implement with highly directional antenna systems, it's expensive to operate, and it doesn't really improve on the main reception quality complaint for analog, which is interference. When there's interference, the digital signal just disappears.

So, in short, no demand, no receivers.



Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2bjh@...>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Michael michael.setaazul@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for the clarification! Strange that there should
be no receivers for AM digital:-) In the Old World few radios
are available - and none affordable - which receive DRM,
although DRM test transmissions continue.

The propagation properties of MW and LW (and even SW) signals
would make DRM or similar very attractive - one transmitter
would cover a wide geographical area. In a major emergency, this
would enable communication to the majority from few transmitters.
As it is, we have glorious DAB and DAB+. At 225MHz they are restricted
to local coverage and require many relay transmitters and emergency
generators to cover the area previously covered by a few AM medium and
longwave transmitters. Ideal for North Korea to confound listening to
non-Great-Leader broadcasts - and in our latitudes advantageous for
Mad Men advertising philosphers...

'nough said,
Michael

On 26.02.16 16:08, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
> Confused I am. In the US, are there digital transmissions in the AM
>
> Unfortunately, there are digital transmissions in the North American
> Medium Wave band , AKA, AM band.
>
> iBiquity's in-band on-channel (IBOC) digital radio technology used by AM
> and FM radio stations.
>
> A far as I’m concerned, it just makes a MW DXers life more difficult.
>
> I can’t find a radio that receives HD AM.



Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Michael <michael.setaazul@...>
 

Thanks for the clarification! Strange that there should
be no receivers for AM digital:-) In the Old World few radios
are available - and none affordable - which receive DRM,
although DRM test transmissions continue.

The propagation properties of MW and LW (and even SW) signals
would make DRM or similar very attractive - one transmitter
would cover a wide geographical area. In a major emergency, this
would enable communication to the majority from few transmitters.
As it is, we have glorious DAB and DAB+. At 225MHz they are restricted to local coverage and require many relay transmitters and emergency generators to cover the area previously covered by a few AM medium and longwave transmitters. Ideal for North Korea to confound listening to non-Great-Leader broadcasts - and in our latitudes advantageous for
Mad Men advertising philosphers...

'nough said,
Michael

On 26.02.16 16:08, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
Confused I am. In the US, are there digital transmissions in the AM

Unfortunately, there are digital transmissions in the North American
Medium Wave band , AKA, AM band.

iBiquity's in-band on-channel (IBOC) digital radio technology used by AM
and FM radio stations.

A far as I’m concerned, it just makes a MW DXers life more difficult.

I can’t find a radio that receives HD AM.


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Bruce Conti
 

I'm not an expert on the topic, but here's a summary of the current terrestrial digital system in the U.S.

HD digital (not the same as DRM or DAB) is what's offered on AM and FM in the U.S. (and a few other nations).  The current system is "hybrid" analog and digital sharing the same carrier frequency.  HD digital is primarily available in car receivers.  Very few HD receivers are available for tabletop or portable use.  Insignia, the Best Buy store brand, was an early adopter.  Here's an example of an Insignia HD digital receiver currently available... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-hd-radio-tabletop-radio-black/4635744.p?id=1218505477073

Not many AM radio stations are broadcasting a digital signal.  Digital has proved not to perform very well on AM, especially for lower power radio stations, so most AM radio stations with a power of 5 kW or less are analog-only.  The combination of increased noise in the AM broadcast band along with nighttime skywave interference have limited the viability of digital on AM.  Digital has been much more widely implemented on FM.

The HD digital hardware and software design is proprietary, initially introduced by iBiquity, but another company recently purchased iBiquity (I forget what company).  Anyway, the proprietary design has harmed its introduction because both manufacturers and broadcasters must pay a fee to obtain rights to use HD digital.

--
Bruce Conti
B.A.Conti Photography www.baconti.com
¡BAMLog! www.bamlog.com


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Gary Vance
 

Confused I am. In the US, are there digital transmissions in the AM


Unfortunately, there are digital transmissions in the North American Medium Wave band , AKA, AM band.

 

iBiquity's in-band on-channel (IBOC) digital radio technology used by AM and FM radio stations.

 

A far as I’m concerned, it just makes a MW DXers life more difficult.

 

I can’t find a radio that receives HD AM.

I don’t know if they’re even made.

 

I think the HD format was introduced for Automobile Radios.

HD radio hasn’t gained wide spread acceptance.

 

As far as I know, there are no DRM broadcasts emanating on this side of the Pond.

I can’t even find a DRM  Receiver, except for SDR types.

 

I bet someone more knowledgeable on the subject can answer your inquiry better.

 

73 Gary Vance, Grand Ledge, Michigan U.S.A.

 

From Wikipedia

HD Radio is a trademarked term for iBiquity's in-band on-channel (IBOC) digital radio technology used by AM and FM radio stations to transmit audio and data by using a digital signal embedded “on-frequency” immediately above and below a station's standard analog signal, providing the means to listen to the same program in either HD (digital radio with less noise) or as a standard broadcast (analog radio with standard sound quality). The HD format also provides the means for a single radio station to simultaneously broadcast one or more different programs in addition to the program being transmitted on the radio station's analog channel.

 


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Michael <michael.setaazul@...>
 

Confused I am.

In the US, are there digital transmissions in the AM
(medium wave) band? If so, as this posting suggests, where is more
information to be found? Is DRM or another format in use?

Michael
UK

On 26.02.16 01:26, Bruce Conti contiba@... [ultralightdx] wrote:
. . .
You'll see the carrier center frequency of 1030 kHz, the
analog content covering +/- 5 kHz from the center frequency, and then
the strongest digital content covering +/- 10 to 15 kHz from the center
frequency. There is additional low-level digital content covering the
'empty' space between the analog and digital, but it's insignificant and
only a nuisance if close to the transmitter site.


1330 Spanish Soccer

n2_ss
 

0400Z to 0500Z Feb 24 here on SW SL Gulf coast heard Spanish language soccer broadcast in and out on 1330. Was never able to ID it. Any thoughts?


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Gary Vance
 

They never ID. Right now they are playing "MacNamara's Band".

 

Thanks guys. I never suspected my Mystery Station could be WKTA Evanston, IL.

I’ve heard them before, but it’s when they are broadcasting Polish or Russian.

 

Paul Juarez, thanks. "MacNamara's Band" is a tune I have heard at least three times in my quest to ID the Mystery Station.

I have heard Louis Armstrong “The Dummy” Doris Day “By the Light of the Silv'ry Moon” and Perry Como songs. 

 

Jim Rittenhouse, I too, suspected it might be 1330 WANG.

When I go to Tune In,  they report “No streams available” for 1330 WANG.

 

I can’t find any active online streams for WKTA or WANG. 

 

Plenty of sites will take you to WANG and WKTA but they all report errors when I attempt to listen.

 

John, thanks for in information about the station.

 

And to my friend Rob Ross, thank you for goading me into joining this group.

You guys, may have saved my sanity.

 

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI.

 

 


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

jtcasejr@...
 

The station is WKTA in Evanston, IL. I heard the exact music you describe on 1330 AM, up until 5:59 AM CST when they finally broadcast the station ID and changed over to Russian Programming.


John


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

robert ross
 


On 2016-02-26, at 6:24 AM, qa1433@... [ultralightdx] wrote:

 

Hi Vince, I think the station is here in the northern suburbs of Chicago. Not sure which suburban city. During the day they broadcast in Russian or Polish. But in the morning when I get up they are broadcasting music from the 40's and 50's. I have listened to this station for approximately one hour in the morning. They never id. Right now they are playing "Mc nmaras band". But I think this is your mystery station. There very strong during the day. But right now they are 4915 rrsi on my Tecsun pl 390.

Thank you and best regards,
Paul Juarez
Sent from my HP Slate 7 Extreme Tablet



If that's who this turns out to be ….it is WKTA Evanston, ILLINOIS 5 kW/110 Watts Nights.

I have heard them many times with ETHNIC Programming, but have never caught the Standards Music Format…….I'll keep an ear for that now you've pointed it out Paul!!

There you go Gary…The ULR List has saved the day again!!

Good Work Paul…….

73….ROB VA3SW

Robert S. Ross
London, Ontario CANADA


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Paul Juarez
 

Hi Vince, I think the station is here in the northern suburbs of Chicago. Not sure which suburban city. During the day they broadcast in Russian or Polish. But in the morning when I get up they are broadcasting music from the 40's and 50's. I have listened to this station for approximately one hour in the morning. They never id. Right now they are playing "Mc nmaras band". But I think this is your mystery station. There very strong during the day. But right now they are 4915 rrsi on my Tecsun pl 390.

Thank you and best regards,
Paul Juarez
Sent from my HP Slate 7 Extreme Tablet


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Jim Rittenhouse
 

It's on tunein.com if you find it again and want to compare it to what you're hearing.


Jim Rittenhouse
Lisle, IL USA 60532

On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:29 PM, 'jim@...' jim@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:

 

Try checking WANG AM 1330 kHz in North Carolina, kicking out 1kw day or night.

Jim Rittenhouse
Lisle, IL USA 60532

On Feb 25, 2016, at 6:05 PM, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:

 

I’m hoping someone can give me a clue about a station I hear on 1330 kHz.

Almost every night, and every morning, until an hour after local sunrise, I hear a station that plays Jazz and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

The station plays one old tune after another.

Occasionally they will play a Michael Bublé tune. But it will always be a Standard from the 40s or 50s.

I don’t hear stations breaks or commercials.

If my mystery station would just ID every now and then, I know I could log them.

The station plays non-stop music, they even blow past  the ToH and BoH without IDing.

Another problem to identifying this station, is 1320 kHz WILS, a 25 kW / 1.9 kW station that is located less than 8 miles from my QTH.

WILS is a talk station and it’s not a big problem, until they go to breaks for news, weather or commercials.

Then they broadcast music during every break, it causes splatter on 1330 and 1310 kHz. 

Sometimes the mystery stations comes in so well, I figure other DXers hear it too.

Any ideas what I am hearing?

BTW, I know it isn’t WEBO Owego, NY. Sometimes I can hear WEBO  over or under the Mystery Station. Besides, WEBO’s Oldies. aren’t as old as the Oldies played on my Mystery Station.

Thanks

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI

 


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Jim Rittenhouse
 

Try checking WANG AM 1330 kHz in North Carolina, kicking out 1kw day or night.

Jim Rittenhouse
Lisle, IL USA 60532

On Feb 25, 2016, at 6:05 PM, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:

 

I’m hoping someone can give me a clue about a station I hear on 1330 kHz.

Almost every night, and every morning, until an hour after local sunrise, I hear a station that plays Jazz and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

The station plays one old tune after another.

Occasionally they will play a Michael Bublé tune. But it will always be a Standard from the 40s or 50s.

I don’t hear stations breaks or commercials.

If my mystery station would just ID every now and then, I know I could log them.

The station plays non-stop music, they even blow past  the ToH and BoH without IDing.

Another problem to identifying this station, is 1320 kHz WILS, a 25 kW / 1.9 kW station that is located less than 8 miles from my QTH.

WILS is a talk station and it’s not a big problem, until they go to breaks for news, weather or commercials.

Then they broadcast music during every break, it causes splatter on 1330 and 1310 kHz. 

Sometimes the mystery stations comes in so well, I figure other DXers hear it too.

Any ideas what I am hearing?

BTW, I know it isn’t WEBO Owego, NY. Sometimes I can hear WEBO  over or under the Mystery Station. Besides, WEBO’s Oldies. aren’t as old as the Oldies played on my Mystery Station.

Thanks

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI

 


Re: 1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Jim Rittenhouse
 

Doing a quick format check of 1330 kHz in your wider area, Iowa-Boston-Virginia-Kentucky-Minneapolis and not coming up with anything outside some odd stuff on WRCA Boston.  Checking Canada....

Jim Rittenhouse
Lisle, IL USA 60532

On Feb 25, 2016, at 6:05 PM, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:

 

I’m hoping someone can give me a clue about a station I hear on 1330 kHz.

Almost every night, and every morning, until an hour after local sunrise, I hear a station that plays Jazz and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

The station plays one old tune after another.

Occasionally they will play a Michael Bublé tune. But it will always be a Standard from the 40s or 50s.

I don’t hear stations breaks or commercials.

If my mystery station would just ID every now and then, I know I could log them.

The station plays non-stop music, they even blow past  the ToH and BoH without IDing.

Another problem to identifying this station, is 1320 kHz WILS, a 25 kW / 1.9 kW station that is located less than 8 miles from my QTH.

WILS is a talk station and it’s not a big problem, until they go to breaks for news, weather or commercials.

Then they broadcast music during every break, it causes splatter on 1330 and 1310 kHz. 

Sometimes the mystery stations comes in so well, I figure other DXers hear it too.

Any ideas what I am hearing?

BTW, I know it isn’t WEBO Owego, NY. Sometimes I can hear WEBO  over or under the Mystery Station. Besides, WEBO’s Oldies. aren’t as old as the Oldies played on my Mystery Station.

Thanks

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI

 


Re: Digital AM/FM/SW radio/recorders

dave_m1ctk
 

I am quite impressed with my Degen DE1129, small compact DSP radio with built in 4GB of memory for recording plus a micro SD card slot for external card up to 32GB I believe... but there are few quirky issues with this radio, but for FM and SW reception was good :-





On 26 February 2016 at 02:30, keith1226@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:
 

Hello, group, 


I'm wondering if anyone here uses or has used any of the small DSP radios with digital recording/mp3 playback capabilities, and has one to recommend. 


I had a DE1126 until last summer, but unfortunately lost it. It was somewhat clumsy to operate (many buttons had multiple functions), and pretty deaf on SW due to internally-generated noise, but I enjoyed the convenience of having an AM/FM radio (FM reception was excellent) and mp3 player in one unit. 


Thanks!


Keith Beesley



Digital AM/FM/SW radio/recorders

keith beesley
 

Hello, group, 


I'm wondering if anyone here uses or has used any of the small DSP radios with digital recording/mp3 playback capabilities, and has one to recommend. 


I had a DE1126 until last summer, but unfortunately lost it. It was somewhat clumsy to operate (many buttons had multiple functions), and pretty deaf on SW due to internally-generated noise, but I enjoyed the convenience of having an AM/FM radio (FM reception was excellent) and mp3 player in one unit. 


Thanks!


Keith Beesley


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Gary Vance
 

Wow! That Splains it!

Bruce, thanks for the information.

The WBZ HD spectrum picture certainly tells the tale.

I didn’t know HD signals hogged so much spectrum.

 

I wondered why IBOC hash, messed up so much of the band.

 

I discovered the leaning into the offending station trick by accident.

My intuition suggested that further away would be better.

My ears told me something different.

 

Thanks again.

 

73 Gary Vance

 

 

 

From: ultralightdx@... [mailto:ultralightdx@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:27 PM
To: ultralightdx@...
Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] CC Skywave for Christmas

 

 

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:32 AM, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:

  I have better luck defeating IBOC hash when I lean into the offending station.  When I tune further away from the IBOC station, I hear only more hash...


Yes.  The most significant digital signals are +/- 10 to 15 kHz from the center frequency.  Take a look at the RF spectrum FFT of WBZ HD here... http://www.bamlog.com/wbz.htm  The image is annotated to make it easier to understand.  You'll see the carrier center frequency of 1030 kHz, the analog content covering +/- 5 kHz from the center frequency, and then the strongest digital content covering +/- 10 to 15 kHz from the center frequency.  There is additional low-level digital content covering the 'empty' space between the analog and digital, but it's insignificant and only a nuisance if close to the transmitter site.

The biggest problem is when two radio stations 20 kHz apart are transmitting HD digital.  My worst frequency is 1070 kHz because it gets digital interference from 1060 KYW HD on the upper side and 1080 WTIC HD on the lower side.  On an ultralight, some combination of off-frequency tuning and using the directional antenna to null interference is required in this case.


--

Bruce Conti
B.A.Conti Photography www.baconti.com
¡BAMLog! www.bamlog.com


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Bruce Conti
 

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:32 AM, 'G Vance URL' gvance11@... [ultralightdx] <ultralightdx@...> wrote:
  I have better luck defeating IBOC hash when I lean into the offending station.  When I tune further away from the IBOC station, I hear only more hash...

Yes.  The most significant digital signals are +/- 10 to 15 kHz from the center frequency.  Take a look at the RF spectrum FFT of WBZ HD here... http://www.bamlog.com/wbz.htm  The image is annotated to make it easier to understand.  You'll see the carrier center frequency of 1030 kHz, the analog content covering +/- 5 kHz from the center frequency, and then the strongest digital content covering +/- 10 to 15 kHz from the center frequency.  There is additional low-level digital content covering the 'empty' space between the analog and digital, but it's insignificant and only a nuisance if close to the transmitter site.

The biggest problem is when two radio stations 20 kHz apart are transmitting HD digital.  My worst frequency is 1070 kHz because it gets digital interference from 1060 KYW HD on the upper side and 1080 WTIC HD on the lower side.  On an ultralight, some combination of off-frequency tuning and using the directional antenna to null interference is required in this case.

--
Bruce Conti
B.A.Conti Photography www.baconti.com
¡BAMLog! www.bamlog.com


Re: CC Skywave for Christmas

Gary Vance
 

Bruce Conti

Tuning slightly off-frequency with a narrow filter (2.3 kHz typ.) in AM mode is a trick I will often use to reduce adjacent signal interference including bothersome HD digital noise.

 

I have better luck defeating IBOC hash when I lean into the offending station.

When I tune further away from the IBOC station, I hear only more hash.

 

There are other HD Stations that are closer to my QTH.

But they don’t muck things up as much as Chicago’s 670 kHz WSCR does.

I wonder what the deal is with WSCR.

BTW, I like your logs. Well done.

 

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI

 

From: ultralightdx@... [mailto:ultralightdx@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 5:44 PM
To: ultralightdx@...
Subject: Re: [ultralightdx] CC Skywave for Christmas

 

 

The CC Skywave got an excellent 4-star review in the 2016 World Radio TV Handbook.  Tuning slightly off-frequency with a narrow filter (2.3 kHz typ.) in AM mode is a trick I will often use to reduce adjacent signal interference including bothersome HD digital noise.  I've found that even in high-end receivers the audio recovery is better using this technique instead of SSB mode.


--

Bruce Conti
B.A.Conti Photography www.baconti.com
¡BAMLog! www.bamlog.com


1330 kHz station, playing Jazz, Show Tunes, and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

Gary Vance
 

I’m hoping someone can give me a clue about a station I hear on 1330 kHz.

Almost every night, and every morning, until an hour after local sunrise, I hear a station that plays Jazz and music from the 1940s & 1950s.

The station plays one old tune after another.

Occasionally they will play a Michael Bublé tune. But it will always be a Standard from the 40s or 50s.

I don’t hear stations breaks or commercials.

If my mystery station would just ID every now and then, I know I could log them.

The station plays non-stop music, they even blow past  the ToH and BoH without IDing.

Another problem to identifying this station, is 1320 kHz WILS, a 25 kW / 1.9 kW station that is located less than 8 miles from my QTH.

WILS is a talk station and it’s not a big problem, until they go to breaks for news, weather or commercials.

Then they broadcast music during every break, it causes splatter on 1330 and 1310 kHz. 

Sometimes the mystery stations comes in so well, I figure other DXers hear it too.

Any ideas what I am hearing?

BTW, I know it isn’t WEBO Owego, NY. Sometimes I can hear WEBO  over or under the Mystery Station. Besides, WEBO’s Oldies. aren’t as old as the Oldies played on my Mystery Station.

Thanks

73 Gary Vance Grand Ledge, MI

 

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